Billy BishopYeah it can be jammed with lasers, but to do that you have to know exactly where it is, which is unlikely considering you won’t even know the missile is coming at you in the first place.
Actually I was wrong, there are indeed missiles which use electro-optical guidance. After reading a bit more about the AIM-9X I have found that it uses a variation of it, among other things. The AIM-9X is a much more advanced missile than I thought. The amount of technology in this thing is amazing. Now off to read about other missiles…
Billy BishopI just looked up the AIM-9R and it uses an “imaging infrared” seeker. What’s that? I’m guessing it means that it uses tv guidance in the day and heatseeking guidance when it’s too dark for the image to be acquired.
TV guidance is supposed to be unjammable. It is also supposed to reject clouds, do it does work in the clouds. Although I would imagine it could only work through light clouds.
I’m still convinced that electro-optical guidance against airborne targets is superior to radar guidance and I’m baffled why such weapons don’t exist.
Let’s compare them.
Pros:
1) 100% unjammable (tanks can jam it with their smoke dispensers, but this would not work in the air)
2) 100% passive (until of course the missile itself is detected, but by then it’s too late to do anything but eject)
3) it would almost certainly be cheaper to produce than a missile which has a radar built in, although probably not as cheap as missiles which have no radar and are guided by the plane, but these are becoming obsolete
Cons:
1) doesn’t work in the dark
2) doesn’t work through heavy clouds, fog, etc.
3) would probably have trouble distinguishing one airborne target from another (unless they have radically different shapes or colours), but this would not be a problem unless you have lots of friendly fighters very close to the enemy fighters
Even with the cons, a missile based on this technology would make a great BVR weapon, and a great high-medium altitude SAM. But I still think a heatseeking missile would be better for dogfighting, and MANPADs would be better for low altitude targets. But this would make many modern SEAD techniques useless.
Also, what about the technology used in night-vision goggles? I have no idea how that works, but could it be applied to electro-optical guidance to allow it to work in the night too?
Billy BishopAvionics on C-130’s.
Avionics on transports are not nearly as important as on fighter jets so if a C-130B has outdated avionics, it’s no big deal.
Billy BishopI thought there was no clouds up where planes fly? What altitude are clouds usually at, and what is the highest altitude they can be at?
Also, what about tv-guided surface to air missiles? On a cloud day they couldn’t acquire their target until after they rose above the clouds, but they can just be launched in the general direction of where the target is expected to be at, and then they can acquire.
Of course this would all be useless at night…
Has anyone ever actually tried to design electro-optically guided a2a or g2a missiles?
Billy BishopAre we talking about planes which are piloted remotely by a human through radio waves, or are we talking about planes which are not piloted by humans at all, where a computer makes all the decisions?
In either case, I think UAV’s and UCAV’s will become more numerous as they get more advanced and capable, but no matter how advanced they get I think there will always be a place for manned fighter jets, at least in our lifetime.
And why stop at planes? We can have unmanned tanks, unmanned frigates, etc.
Billy BishopUmmmm! What’s Kazahkstan doing in this thread? Kazakhstan is not a small airforce, it’s one of the largest and most powerful in the world!
Actually, a single PGM costs as much as hundreds of unguided rockets.
They used to but now I’m not so sure. I guess it depends on which kind of PGM, and which kind of unguided rockets or bombs. Electronics are drastically cheaper than they were 20 years ago. I think they are so cheap now, that the guidance part on most PGM’s costs less than the bomb/missile itself (explosives and propellant).
Billy BishopIrkutsk is a city of about 650,000 located way down in the south of Russia near the Mongolian border. It was formed as a Kossack outpost in the 1600’s. It is the main city of the trans-baikal region.
Billy BishopActually there was an engagement between Albanian and Serbian armies during the Kosovo war if you believe this:
http://milnemedia.typepad.com/milne_media/2004/10/albanian_army_g.html
Billy BishopIs Croatia still training new Mig-21 pilots or not?
Billy BishopI agree and disagree with the last post. Completely forgetting about the fast jet fleet and letting them fall apart and concentrating on the economy instead might seem like a good idea at first, but what if in 2010-2015 timeframe when the economy is a little better, and the country decides to buy figher jets after all, they will have to start from scratch, which will be extremely difficult. Keeping pilots flying on a supersonic fighter is important. I would say that the Mig-21 in SiCG AF service is more important for its being able to keep pilots flying, than it is for its fighting capability or its value as a deterrent.
Ink,
What makes you say the army is in bad shape? According to the pictures and info posted here: http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=37022 it seems they are getting lots of new equipment (mostly from Israel) and are quite well equipped. Also there was that M-2001 upgrade (what’s the status with that?). I would say that while their AF and navy are in bad shape, the army is in great shape. Maybe not great compared to Israel, but certainly much better than Romania or Bulgaria or even Hungary who’s already in Nato for a long time.
But yeah, to the people who suggested forgetting about the AF and spending all the money improving the economy instead, if any country was to do that, then 99% chance they will never have an airforce again, even after their economy is on track.
Billy BishopNot 2010 necessarily, I meant around 2010. That is what I think is a realistic date for them to start to make some significant purchases.
I still don’t see how the Mig-21-93 is worth it for its PGM capabilities or speed. If you need PGM’s, then the G-4 can be made PGM capable for a much lower cost than it would take to upgrade the Mig-21’s to 93’s.
Also, what kind of situation could anyone possibly be in where they would have to fly at Mach 2 and fire a PGM? I can only think of one scenario in which this would be done, and I can’t imagine this scenario occuring in the Balkans.
Srbin what is this G-4M2 you speak of?
Regarding Serbia’s neighbors’ BVR capabilities, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, and Albania have none. Bulgarian and Romanian Mig-29’s haven’t flown in years, so these countries have no BVR capability either. I think Hungarian Mig-29’s are in-operable too, although I’m not entirely sure about that. So, no one has BVR in the region (well Italy and Greece do but they are not direct neighbors to Serbia). Of cousre this will soon change. Hungary already ordered the Jas-39, and I imagine Romania and Bulgaria will both buy something (probably secondhand F-16’s) in the near future.
Billy BishopSince everyone is giving their opinions on what they *think* should happen, why don’t I too.
The Mig-21 should not be upgraded in any way, instead they should fly them in their current state until 2010, and then purchase the very best fighter anyone will offer them. Think PAK-FA…
There is no point in upgrading Mig-21’s when even upgraded Mig-21’s will just be obsolete in a few years anyways.
FC-1? I don’t think so, it would be an embrarrassment for Yugoslavia to get such a low end fighter, considering it has always had the very latest fighters (ie they got the Mig-21 only 2 years after the Soviet AF got them, and Mig-29’s only 3 years after the Soviet AF got them). The FC-1 is inferior in almost every way to fighters some other Balkan countries are getting, like Gripens.
Mig-21-93 upgrade costs more than it’s worth and it’s not very useful as a bomber anyways. Look at its pathetic payload. Besides, what kind of threat could Serbia possibly face from any of its neighbors where a Mig-21-93’s a2g capabilities could do something that a G-4 couldn’t, or even a howitzer?
I am intersted in the following information:
What is the status of the G-4M upgrade? I know a single prototype was tested, bombed in 1999, then rebuilt and tested again in 2002. I have not seen anything since that article in 2002. Is there any chance of this upgrade being actually carried out on the G-4 fleet?
What is the status of the LVB-250 LGB which is mentioned at ACIG?
What is the status of the UAV’s in development, and are any procurements planned?
What is the status of the Lasta?
Billy BishopOh my God TJ you have 666 posts quick make another post to change that number before something bad happens to you!
Billy BishopUnless I’m mistaken Israel has only 1 spy satellite (Ofek 5). Also UAV’s can provide more detailed imagery than satellites. Even the US’s satellites which are probably the best can’t provide really detailed imagery.
Billy BishopAs for the F-16, instead of developing it why didn’t they just modernize the F-5 (ie the F-20)? I think if the F-20 had been offered earlier, the F-16 would never have existed. Why wasn’t it?
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