SlowManI’m still not sure how Pakistan with 550,000 troops, 3,000 tanks
Tanks are useless without air cover in the modern warfare. Within its current state, India will quickly achieve air dominance.
11 frigates, 5 submarines
Which doesn’t pose much of a threat to the Indian Navy.
several hundred combat aircraft
Mostly obsolete types, save for a handful of F-16s.
and nuclear weapons
Nuclear weapon cannot be used in real combat unless one is about to be totally defeated. Remember, the moment Pakistan uses nukes, the Indian nuke drops on Islamabad.
Pakistan might not be able to defeat India, but it’s mere presence ensures that India has to maintain a large presence as a deterrence to Pakistan.
And how is that a containment?
Hence less resources for focusing on China.
India is surrounded by an open ocean, thus not even the US could contain India. China is a different story, because China’s surrounded by an island chain that is pro-US. Hence the US could contain China at a few select critical passages along with its three allies each of which brings in formidable navies of their own.
A Su-30MKI might thrash a J-10 but if that same Su-30MKI is required to deter some JF-17s a couple of thousand kilometres away, then that’s a problem.
The problem is that India would have at least 600 top-class fighter jets consisting of Su-30MKI, Rafale, and PAK-FA. Just 200 of these is enough to put Pakistan on the defensive position, while the rest head to Chinese border.
SlowManCUDA is for situation when the enemy try to dogfight
At a dog-fight range, you don’t need radar-guided missiles; you need IR missiles.
SlowManBy helping Pakistan bring it air force up to speed with 400+ highly capable aircraft China is forcing India to split its air defences there by containing them No one said Pakistan was trying to contain India :rolleyes:
But this is what you said earlier.
A little off topic but China has its own containment program going by feeding aircraft and weapons to Pakistan and Bangladesh in an effort to contain India
Pakistan is basically useless for Chinese containment effort of India. The US allies(Japan, Korea, and Australia) on the other hand would gladly join in the US effort to contain China.
There may not be parity, either in quality or numbers, but this is still a highly credible force.
The Pakistan Airforce is insignificant next to the Indian Airforce or the PLAAF.
Any increase in tensions with the PRC will leave Indian military planers with the headache of splitting their forces to counter the possibility of intervention by Pakistan.
Can Pakistan with its bankrupt economy and depleted military actually take on India which is buying up top grade weapons like crazy? Another war with India could mean a significant territorial loss for Pakistan and they know it.
I don’t know if anyone told you but India doesn’t have Rafale or PAK-FA and will not have for some years also Pakistan is waiting for J10 so it’s more like JF-17 and F-16 against SU-30 and Mirage 2000 looks a bit different now also this means that as Rafale comes on line in India J-10 will come on line in Pakistan
The F-16s cannot be used against India. Pakistan agreed not to fly its F-16s out of its territory and they are “boxed in”. Outside of Pakistani territory the weapons are disabled.
SlowManReally:confused:????
Yup.
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-02-12/world/37046353_1_nuclear-test-kim-jong-eun-zhu-feng
“North Korean resentment of China is at a high now,” Kleine-Ahlbrandt said . “The more they depend on China, the more they resent China. The relationship frankly has been a challenge, especially the past year.”
I don’t think North Korea would or could exist without the PRC’s support
And that’s exactly what ordinary North Korean public wants, the collapse of Kim’s regime and the absorption by the ROK.
The Chinese aid sustaining Kim regime is preventing that from happening, so the ordinary North Koreans blame their miserable conditions on China and hate China the most, this assures that what was formerly North Korea would become the most fierce anti-China region of China’s neighbors.
By helping Pakistan bring it air force up to speed with 400+ highly capable aircraft China is forcing India to split its air defences there by containing them No one said Pakistan was trying to contain India :rolleyes:
What little China provided to Pakistan doesn’t pose a threat to India.
JF-17 vs Rafale?
J-10 vs PAK-FA?
You get the picture.
SlowMan1: No. China doesn’t need Su-34 clones, they have J-16 up and coming, their roles would overlap.
Russia built the Su-34 for a reason; long-range mission endurance. The Su-34 allows the pilots to go to bathroom, microwave snacks, and take a nap if necessary. This kind of comfort is not available in the Flanker.
SlowManThe US does but none of Japan’s neighbours do.
Taiwan does, as Japan’s new defense policy includes Taiwan as the area of operation, meaning Japan will intervene when China invades Taiwan. Japan’s rearmament is also welcome at Philippines and Vietnam.
As stated, it’s inherent racism and policy myopia. If the US ever goes to war with China, I’d rather Australia stay out ouf it.
But Australia won’t.
SlowManWhy doesnt US buy one of the dirt cheap chinese trainers?
The winning Chinese bidder would have access to detailed information and procedures of the USAF pilot training program.
The one with the US-built engine, K-8? It cannot meet specs.
I think he was thinking the L-15, the supersonic YAK-130.
SlowManThe reality is that the US can execute a naval blockade of China if it wills it.
China by contrast cannot naval blockade any of its major enemies.
SlowManA little off topic but China has its own containment program going by feeding aircraft and weapons to Pakistan and Bangladesh in an effort to contain India
Well, Pakistan cannot contain India by any stretch of imagination and the Indian Navy’s operations in Indian Ocean and the South China Sea is unrestricted.
This isn’t the case with the PLAN, where the PLAN has trouble operating beyond the first island chain and the US can naval-blockade China at will.
Lets me rational here.
Clearly China is stepping over the mark, but all of this drama is also due in part to the Americans drumming up fake outrage over decades old disputes.
It’s the China’s neighbor’s outrages that’s driving the anti-China alliance, not anything particular that the US’s doing.
And then we have Korean nationalist lunatics like SlowMan claiming Manchuria.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiandao#Boundary_claims
In 2004 the South Korean government issued a statement to the effect that it believed that the Gando Convention was null and void. The resultant controversy and strong negative reaction from the PRC led to a retraction of the statement, along with an explanation that its issuance was an “administrative error.”
It is the ROK’s official state doctrine that the territory east of Songhua River, called Kando, is legally Korean territory, and will do whatever it takes to recover the land when the opportunity arises.
SlowManIndeed good news for BAE Systems and their partner Northrop Grumman, Hawk should be the cheapest solution.
Not really as the USAF would need to keep its F-16D fleet if the Hawk won.
The stress is on the F-16D fleet, not on the T-38C fleet.
SlowManWord within industry is the T-X competition will likely slip 3-5 years due to lack of funding.
The solution to this problem would be private financing, which the USAF was asking bidders for suggestions.
Basically, the USAF is asking if it was possible to buy flying hours instead of owning and maintaining the jets. If the USAF goes with this “hourly leasing” option, then the financial backing of foreign governments becomes the decisive factor and certain governments might take the bait as this would allow them to decrease US content and build more of the jet in their home countries instead of increasing the US contents. Boeing will have to seek private financing on the construction of jets.
SlowManI think this thread is broken. It’s not showing my last three posts.
SlowManAlenia Pulls out of AFA at Last Minute
Posted by Amy Butler 10:56 AM on Feb 21, 2013Alenia North America, a key contender in the upcoming USAF T-38C replacement competition, is a no-show at the annual Air Force Assn. meeting in Orlando Feb. 21-22.
The company had been slated to occupy the prime slot, right next to the entry of the exhibit floor. And, when Finmeccanica, which owns Alenia, does a booth, you know it. True to the company’s Italian roots, the booth is often the brightest and shiniest — draped in red and decked out with good food and displays. The Italians aren’t known to do shows half-way.
The hole left here at the show by Alenia, however, left the Air Force Assn. to hastily crafted a huge information booth and lounge space here. The spot is adjacent to T-X competitors Lockheed Martin, which is offering the T-50 with Korea Aerospace Industries, and Northrop Grumman, offering a Hawk with teammate BAE.
Seems that the T-X contest is shaping out to be Hawk vs T-50 showdown, with Hawk selling on low-cost of ownership vs T-50’s ability to replace F-16D from the training fleet.
SlowManIf China did nothing, the US would still turn it into the enemy.
But China’s neighbors wouldn’t be joining the US effort to isolate China if China did nothing, making it a failure.
The US effort to contain China works because China’s neighbors are willing to go along with it to counter threats posed by China.
2. US presence and subsidising of Japanese defence ensures no rationale for massive Japanese military build up.
To the contrary the US welcomes a re-armed Japan. It was the US that was pressuring Japan to cross out the Article 9 of the peace constitution and become a “normal” country with a full military again, and the US will get that new Japan with Abe Shinzo.
3. Containment of North Korea and in the past Vietnam.
In ROK, North Korea is almost a non-Issue; North Korea is seen as something that could be totally “liberated” in 2 weeks should the war resume; it is China that could turn that 2-week war into a 2-year war. Hence the new Defense Minister’s directive is to cut-back on Anti-NK weapons programs and invest in Anti-China weapons programs.
Then there is the ongoing Eastern Manchuria territorial dispute between China and ROK.
5. Australia – US presence keeps “yellow hordes” at bay.
Australia will follow where the US leads them.
China is not antagonising Australia.
Yet Australia has a war plan against China.
Secret ‘war’ with China uncovered
BY:BRENDAN NICHOLSON, DEFENCE EDITOR From: The Australian June 02, 2012 12:00AMA secret chapter in the Rudd government’s 2009 defence white paper detailed a plan to fight a war with China. Source: The Daily Telegraph
A SECRET chapter in the Rudd government’s 2009 defence white paper detailed a plan to fight a war with China, in which the navy’s submarines would help blockade its trade routes, and raised the prospect of China firing missiles at targets in Australia in retaliation.A new book, The Kingdom and the Quarry: China, Australia, Fear and Greed, reveals how Force 2030 set out in the white paper – to include 12 big conventional submarines with missiles, revolutionary Joint Strike Fighters, air warfare destroyers and giant landing ships – was being prepared for a possible war with Australia’s main trading partner.
As for South Korea, their main problem is North Korea.
Once again, North Korea is almost a non-issue in the ROK, this is why the stock market went up, the currency strengthened, on the day of 3rd nuclear test; foreigners in Seoul will tell you as if nothing happened, or something happened half-away across the world. The NK nuke test was the 6th most viewed daily news at major Korean portals, far behind a surprise cosmetic sale and the wedding announcement of some actress.
The No. 1 security threat perceived in the ROK is China, because it is the China Factor that decides the length of the second war and the outcome of Eastern Manchuria territorial dispute.
A pic tells more than a thousand words according to the old Mongol General Subutai, here is 2 pics that prove China to be the greediest SOB since Kublai Khan
Kublai Khan was a Mongol, nothing to do with China or Chinese historical claims. If Mongolia claimed South China Sea based on the history of Mongol Empire that makes sense, but not China.
North Korea lives off Chinese aid.
And has no gratitude for it.
North Korean regime sees the annual aid as a protection money that they rightfully deserve to collect from the beneficiary China. Kim’s regime reasons that without them China would face US F-22 and missile bases 400 miles away from Beijing.
Mongolia has been run as a Russian outpost for over 100 years now.
Doesn’t change the fact that Mongolia is pro-Russia and anti-China.
SlowManRubbish, please do tell who is China “antagonizing” again?
Not counting the US, the following list of countries.
– Japan
– Taiwan
– ROK
– North Korea <= Yup, North Koreans hate China the most.
– India
– Mongolia
– Vietnam
– Philippines
– Australia
The list goes on and on and on.
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