SlowManJohn Ivison: F-35 purchase in jeopardy with upcoming KPMG report on full cost of fighter jet
Before the House of Commons breaks for Christmas, KPMG’s review of the price tag for the F-35 fighter jets will be tabled in Parliament, breathing new life into Opposition claims of ballooning costs and Conservative mismanagement.
The report could sound the death knell for Canada’s involvement in the troubled project.
In the wake of a critical audit last spring by the Auditor-General, the accountancy firm was asked to give full-life-cycle costs for the F-35 – the all-in price of purchasing and operating the jets until 2052, not just the 20-year estimate the Department of National Defence provided.
The revised timeline will inevitably bloat the costs from the current $25-billion National Defence estimate.
Add Canada to the list soon, since it is now politically impossible to go ahead with the CF-35 acquisition as planned and they must convert to open bidding, where Lockheed must complete against Boeing and EADS offering a much fatter industrial participation and tech transfer benefits at significantly lower prices(And they are safer twin engine jets too)
This is why Lockheed is trying to delay the outcome of the Korean contest, because it will have the domino effect.
SlowManExcuses
You still have not shown where
You have two countries, Korea where the F-35 is all but eliminated(Lockheed’s actually lobbying to delay the announcement by several years), and Netherlands where the parliament officially voted to get out of the F-35 program.
SlowManJapan: F-35 won over F/A-18E & EF
Due to the intense US diplomatic pressure, and the Japanese MoD’s desire to improve relations with the US as a strong tie with the US is critical to Japan’s security.
Israel: F-35 won chosen over F-15
Israel had no choice because it’s the US that’s paying for the jets, not Israel.
Norway: F-35 won over EF & Gripen NG
Wikileaks had a nice disclosure on how the US pressure did it.
Korea: No official decision made
But the finance ministry and the DAPA chiefs are making statements that clearly doesn’t fit Lockheed Martin, such as the finance ministry’s announcement that they would run a side-by-side comparison evaluation of the indigenous option vs the FX winner’s KFX proposal(Lockheed made none) next spring, or the DAPA chief’s recent comment that the offset package has become the deciding factor(Lockheed’s offset package was far worse than the other bidders and worth less than half as much).
So this is why everyone takes it as a two horse race now.
SlowManAs always with you, this is the only criterion you care about. Korea isn’t buying it, therefore it is rubbish. Koreans are infallible. Only Korean judgements can be trusted. All Korean products or purchases are the best.
I would be happy to list all other contests where the F-35 failed. A failure is a failure regardless of where it happens, right?
The F-35 failed on its execution and should have been scrapped, but the politics kept it going and going and going until it started to cost more than the F-22.
SlowManThe pattern is: up
Yes, price UP indeed.
SlowManSee a pattern?
Yes, I see a pattern where the LRIP unit cost is going up, not down.
The F-35 is a lost cause. After the defeat in the Korean contest and the impending Canadian bailout, who is next? Australia?
SlowManhttp://www.chicagotribune.com/news/sns-rt-us-usa-defense-fighterbre8at0x9-20121130,0,653095.story
LRIP-4 : 32 jets for $3.4 billion
LRIP-5 : 32 jets for $3.8 billion
Not good, the LRIP unit cost is actually going up, not down. No wonder the Pentagon took so long to reach a deal.
Time to pull the ejection handle on the F-35 and go look for a jet with a saner pricetag instead.
SlowManhttp://www.airforcetimes.com/news/2011/02/air-020111-F-35-T38-F16D-web/
F-35 students to train on Talons, F-16s
By DAVE MAJUMDAR – Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Feb 1, 2011 14:38:07 EST
Future Air Force F-35 Joint Strike Fighter pilots will train on both the T-38 Talon supersonic jet-trainer and F-16 Fighting Falcon fighter before moving on to the fifth-generation jet, a service official said.That mimics the curriculum currently followed by pilots destined for the F-22. Raptor students train on the T-38, then take an eight-flight “bridge course” in the more capable F-16. The bridge course includes day and night aerial refueling and operating sensors and data-links under the stress of 9 Gs, said Col. Ken G. Griffin, chief of flying training requirements at the service’s Air Education and Training Command.
“We’re starting to talk about that in terms of a fifth-gen bridge course. As the F-35 gets closer, we intend to continue the same [concept of operations] with F-35 that we use with the F-22 right now,” Griffin said.
Unlike the F-16 and F-15, the F-22 and F-35 lack a dual-cockpit variant, so some pilot training takes place in a two-seat F-16D-model plane.
Traditionally, prospective fighter pilots undergo advanced pilot training and a supplementary course called Introduction to Fighter Fundamentals in the T-38 before going directly to their Formal Training Units to convert to an operational aircraft such as the F-15 Eagle or F-16. The six-week introduction course is designed to instill the fundamental fighter-pilot mentality and basic skill set required to fly those warplanes. However, the current T-38 is unequal to the task of preparing new aviators for fifth-generation fighters such as the F-22 Raptor or the forthcoming F-35.
The F-16 solution is a stopgap measure, said Richard Aboulafia, an analyst at the Teal Group, Fairfax, Va. The F-16 fleet is wearing out and is far more costly to operate than a relatively simple trainer, he said. Eventually, the Air Force will be forced to replace the decades-old Talon in favor of a newer jet-trainer, Aboulafia said.
The F-16D cannot be the permanent training solution and the T-X trainer must take over the role. Now, which trainer can replace the F-16D?
– T-50 F414
– Boeing new-build trainer
– Gripen trainer
SlowManNo you can’t change the subject, you inferred that the RAF, FAA and all foreign operators of the F-35 must train in America and that training must include some check flights on a supersonic twin seat type with AB.
1. Yes, foreign F-35 pilots must train in the US.
2. All new F-35 pilots must fly in the F-16Ds before getting into an F-35, US and foreign pilots alike. Experienced pilots transitioning from F-16, F/A-18, Typhoon, F-15 need not fly in the F-16D.
Myself and Swerve agree that the USAF LIFT fleet is obsolete but we question the need for a supersonic replacement with an AB when many other airforces get on perfectly well without!
Not all airforces train to same standard.
Hawk T.2 is more then capable of meeting the part of the syllabus you are talking about
But you said merely meeting the KPP requires airframe modifications, which changes the whole equation because of increased expense and performance changes resulting from the weight increase.
SlowManOnly bombers can get close enough, the most likely encounter is Tu-95 Bear
http://www.en.rian.ru/military_news/20120530/173757083.html
Russia to Reopen Arctic Airbases
© RIA Novosti. Valeriy Melnikov
18:40 30/05/2012
ST. PETERSBURG, May 30 (RIA Novosti)Selected air units of Russia’s Western military district will start this year preparations to return to abandoned Arctic airfields, the commander of the district’s aviation Maj. Gen. Igor Makushev said on Wednesday.
Military airfields in the Arctic were used extensively in the Soviet era, but after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 they have been generally mothballed.“We will start reopening airfields on Novaya Zemlya and in Naryan-Mar as early as this summer,” Makushev told a news conference in St. Petersburg.
Plans for next year include the reopening of a military airfield on Graham Bell Island, which is part of Franz Josef Land.
SlowManWait till you see KPMG’s ‘upcoming report’ on the full cost of the J-20 and PAK FA…;)
As a NATO member, PAK-FA and J-20 aren’t viable options, especially PAK-FA since it is the very jet that Canada’s trying to confront with its new fighter jet.
SlowManhttp://www.ipolitics.ca/2012/11/29/f-35-not-the-only-plane-that-meets-stealth-requirements-lawson/
F-35 not the only plane that meets stealth requirements: Lawson
By Colin Horgan | Nov 29, 2012 6:50 pm | 2 CommentsThe F-35 might not be the only plane that could meet Canada’s requirement for stealth as currently set out, according to Chief of Defence Staff Gen. Tom Lawson.
Lawson told the national defence committee Thursday evening that the F-35 is not the only plane that meets the level of stealth set out in the statement of operational requirements (SOR). The terms of the SOR do not mean the F-35 is the only fighter aircraft Canada can to buy.
“Is there only one airplane that can meet the standard of stealth that’s set out in the statement of requirements?” Liberal MP John McKay asked.
And, he said, later, the stealth provision in the SOR is not hard and fast.
“The necessary element of stealth is not written in. The requirement for some level of stealth is what’s written into the statement of requirements,” Lawson told reporters afterward.
Lawson’s statement seems to contradict what Defence Minister Peter MacKay said shortly after the government announced it would buy 65 jets in July 2010.
Since General Lawson wasn’t talking about PAK-FA or J-20, he’s talking about the Silent Eagle/Hornet.
SlowManT-X does not require an afterburner for the simple reason it is not needed, many airforces transition from two seater non-ab trainers to single seat ab-fighters without trouble.
But the USAF is not your typical airforce.
What you do not seem to understand is that the scope of training is changing in the T-X era. What used to be trained once the newly graduated pilot is assigned to a fighter squadron is now going to be taught at the flight training school instead, because the future fighter squadrons lack two seaters to train newly minted pilots on advanced subjects, or else the USAF must continue to use F-16Ds for that role, an expensive preposition. That includes high-altitude, high-speed, high-G combat maneuvers on “afterburner kick”.
SlowManJohn Ivison: F-35 purchase in jeopardy with upcoming KPMG report on full cost of fighter jet
Before the House of Commons breaks for Christmas, KPMG’s review of the price tag for the F-35 fighter jets will be tabled in Parliament, breathing new life into Opposition claims of ballooning costs and Conservative mismanagement.
The report could sound the death knell for Canada’s involvement in the troubled project.
In the wake of a critical audit last spring by the Auditor-General, the accountancy firm was asked to give full-life-cycle costs for the F-35 – the all-in price of purchasing and operating the jets until 2052, not just the 20-year estimate the Department of National Defence provided.
The revised timeline will inevitably bloat the costs from the current $25-billion National Defence estimate.
SlowMan
This is the purpose-designed trainer that Boeing came up with based on their interpretation of the T-X requirement.
Now, which off-the-shelf trainer is the closest to this Boeing trainer? I rest my case.
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