the conclusion would be, let’s seize the opportunity and invade now!
This is why the defense minister is trying to sell an invasion to public now, saying that it would be over quickly and relatively cheaply
no wonder NK want the nuke.
Now you understand the context of this whole situation.
oh great, so the plan is a build a Korean Wall :rolleyes:
No, they just want to keep the DMZ around long after the Kim regime collapsed and the ROK has occupied North Korea.
The NK are there purely to provide cheap labour
For the first 20 year or so, unfortunately.
and damn their humanitarian needs?
Jobs are the best form of social welfare programs, and there will be plenty.
You have no concerns about the duty of care you have to them in such a scenario and you assume that they are quietly going to roll over and take that kind of situation?
This why the seal-off is so important in making this happen.
Slowman further to your earlier assertion, you can’t just slap down 8 lane highways and a fully modernised rail infrastructure just like that! It takes years of planning (sometimes decades – just look at Crossrail!) and decades to build!
That’s not the ROK way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyeongbu_Expressway
February 1968 – Construction begins at the behest of South Korean President Park Chung-hee.
21 December 1968 – Seoul-Suwon segment opens to traffic.
30 December 1968 – Suwon-Osan segment opens to traffic.
29 September 1969 – Osan-Cheonan segment opens to traffic.
10 December 1969 – Cheonan-Daejeon segment opens to traffic.
19 December 1969 – Busan-Daegu (via Gyeongju) segment opens to traffic.
7 July 1970 – The last segment, the mountainous Daejeon-Daegu segment, opens to traffic, completing South Korea’s first long-distance limited access expressway.
Two years to complete a 420 km highway over mountains. The only regret was that they built it as a 4-lane and not 8-lane highway, so widening it to 8 lane was a nightmare afterward.
By year 4, most of North Korea’s major cities would be connected by 8-lane highways.
Add to that modernising a nearly non existent outside of Pyongyang power infrastructure
The power will be sent from the South.
and a population lacking in the skills
This is not important as long as they could be taught; China has demonstrated this with its farmer migrant work force.
And btw, if you could do it, most companies would transfer their factories to the North
From China, of course.
Dream on. No government would survive shooting masses of NK civilians heading into the South.
They don’t have to do the shooting. Try to walk across two mile deep land mine fields and electric fences; most will not survive.
And they would rush south.
So you have no idea what the DMZ looks like, aka “The Most Dangerous Place On Earth” according to Bill Clinton. If the ROK government decides to keep the DMZ, then no mass exodus by land is possible, only by the sea. But you understand how the boat people are handled.
Seahawk has it right
Well, he’s wrong.
The East Germans were by in large well fed and in some form of work
Which made it difficult for foreign capitals to move into East Germany after the fall of the Berlin Wall.
North Korea on the other hand relies on World Food Aid to feed its population who are starving, brainwashed, lacking in jobs and skills suitable for a modern economy.
But perfectly good enough to work in factories. At least this is the experience of the companies operating in Kaesung industrial zone, which they found to be more productive than their factories in China. Do expect the ROK businesses to pull out from China and relocate to North Korea following the ROK occupation of North Korea.
Unlike East Germany the infrastructure can barely support its population and is in urgent need of not only modernisation but setting up in many cases.
Infrastructure building is not a problem as long as land is acquired(Which is the case because the ROK government gets all of the lands of North Korea), modern highways can be constructed in 5 years or less, and the industrial zones will start popping up sooner along the border and port cities.
Add to that the problem of the huge military which for many NK citizens there main source of housing, work and food.
This doesn’t cost much because their expectation is low anyway.
I have read one plan where the South after reunification would maintain its defences along the DMZ to stop a flood of NK refuges rampaging into the South totally overwhelming SK infrastructure from housing and feeding them to providing medical care.
It is not a plan, but THE PLAN. Seal up North Korea and rebuild.
A more ideal solution for the South is a gradual modernisation and reform of the current NK government towards reunification.
It will be a rapid modernization similar to Korea’s modernization in the 70s and China’s modernization in the 90s. The process will be quicker because there is so much capital to inject.
With sanctions being slowly lifted and increased trade allowing gentle modernisation until the North is in a position to reunify with the South.
The only possible come is the regime collapse due to internal revolution/war, the ROK occupation, and the rapid industrialization in the following 20 years. Only afterward North Korea could possibly be unsealed. The ROK government’s conclusion is that the North Korean reform is not possible, so the only possible scenario left is the regime collapse followed by the ROK takeover.
Apart from the damage caused by the hostilities,
The battleground is almost exclusively in North Korea, which has to be rebuilt from scratch anyway. The ROK defense ministry envisions destroying 70% of North Korean troops in 5 days, and may end the war in as little as 2 weeks. At maximum it doesn’t exceed one month because that’s how much fuel and food reserve the North has.
the South would end up with a humanitarian catastrophe in the North and waves of refugees heading South
Assuming if they could cross the DMZ, which stands during and after the war.
seeking food, shelter and work
In North Korea, of course.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/04/12/3339961/mongolian-general-probed-for-north.html
Mongolian general probed for North Korean jet deal
By GANBAT NAMJILSANGARAV
Associated PressULAN BATOR, Mongolia — Mongolia’s anti-corruption agency is investigating the recently resigned commander of the Mongolian air force for attempting to sell the engines and other parts of old Russian-made jet fighters to North Korea.
Investigators this week confirmed the probe, which had been ongoing, against Brig. Gen. Tojoon Dashdeleg and two private businessmen. The deal to sell the engines and scrap from about 20 disused MiG-21 fighters for $1.5 million dated from 2011. It resurfaced in November when a North Korean envoy complained to Mongolian officials that Pyongyang had paid but never received the parts.
E. Amarbat, the head of the investigative department of the Independent Agency Against Corruption, told reporters Thursday that the general and the businessmen have returned about half the money to North Korea. “However, this does not mean they will receive reduced sentences,” Amarbat said at a news conference. He did not elaborate on the possible sentences.
http://mainichi.jp/select/news/m20130412ddm005040154000c.html
Japanese cabinet is discussing the possible rescue of Japanese abductees in North Korea by the SDF troops in a war/regime collapse scenario. In other word, Japan would send in SDF troops into North Korea to rescue Japanese abductees should the war break out and the ROK and US troops have moved into North Korea. This would leave a legal justification for sending SDF troops into North Korea.
The ROK is balking at this discussion because it considered North Korea its territory and any unauthorized Chinese and Japanese troop movement into North Korea as an invasion of ROK. In practice, the ROK defense ministry has the wartime command in 2015 and overseas all troops including the US troops, and an uncoordinated Japanese military activities in North Korea could endanger those Japanese troops.
People live on that land, farm it, & so on. Are you proposing to evict them without compensation?
They would be given alternative properties. This is possible because the ROK government owns all land in North Korea following the takeover.
And if compensation is really 90% of the cost of infrastructure in s. Korea, then S. Koreans must be fighting to have infrastructure built on their land.
People can be paid off and made quite, but salamanders cannot be. Yup, even salamanders file lawsuits to block railway construction thanks to the helps of environmental activists, and dolphins file lawsuits to protect their habitats with a help of a few humans. This is what is meant by the first world legal system; sounds familiar, isn’t it?
BTW, most of the new infrastructure wouldn’t need lots of new land. Telecoms, upgrading of railways, surfacing of rural roads . . . . not much compensation to be paid there, wherever it’s built.
The ones that the ROK would likely build in North Korea are 8-lane highways and high speed rail corridors, which need to be as straight as possible. So those do take up lots of prime lands.
When you build a new city from scratch, generally 30% of land is taken up for roads and other public use lands, leaving 70% for homes and businesses. The similar land use ratio is expected in North Korea.
You’ll also need to factor in the cost of paying for skilled S. Koreans to do a lot of work. N. Koreans with picks & shovels can’t create a modern telecoms infrastructure, or give their railways modern signalling, or many of the other tasks needed.
The ratio is like 50:1. For example, 780 Southern managers oversea 50K North Korean workers in Kaesung industrial park.
Your imagined flood of foreign investment has many problems apart from infrastructure (which will take years to bring up to scratch, of course).
Not in the ROK. They build a whole new city of a million from wilderness in 7 years. Just building road and bridges take a lot less without the legal obstructions.
Think about why there is no flood of foreign investment in other countries with lower labour costs than China.
Those other countries do not have a developed country injecting $300 billion in an immediate reconstruction. North Korea does.
Think about supply chains.
Parts supplied from ROK, Japan, and China.
China is a good place to invest because you can get everything you need, quickly & easily. In N. Korea, all you could set up to start with would be screwdriver plants, assembling components.
You are forgetting ROK and China.
You’ll also have to pay for the revamping of the education system
That can wait. Starting up a factory and finding labor doesn’t take much time as China has demonstrated. Seriously, do you think the migrant workers manning Foxconn’s lines are better educated than North Koreans? They are not.
the administration, & dish out a hell of a lot of welfare payments for a few years.
ROK’s welfare program is jobs, not hand outs. North Korean are not used to social welfare so they are eager to work.
Germany spent 1600 billion euros on rebuilding the east.
And the ROK studied German case and devised a plan to not repeat that mistake. Hence the ROK occupation of North Korea starts with a SAR.
you’re still being insanely optimistic.
That is exactly what the ROK government has planned. It is not being optimistic; the ROK government is drawing from its own and China’s development experience to conclude that the plan will work.
those bomber (IL28) are mothballed.
What does this means?
North Korea is drilling for a military operation across its border with China, and China’s drilling for a civilian evacuation in the event of a possible North Korean missile strike in Chinese cities.
China and North Korea aren’t close allies like many westerners presume they are(East Asians know this fact that China and North Korea hate each other), and this is the reason why China seems unable to exert an influence of any kind over North Korea.
Sorry I haven’t the slightest clue what you are blathering about SlowMan?! It doesn’t appear to have any relevance to what I was saying!
You were suggesting that China would like to see the ROK hurt with the burden of rebuilding North Korea.
The ROK government doesn’t feel that way, this is a 500% return investment for them, made possible by the state ownership of all lands, so the all the land belongs to the new “state”(ROK)”, hence the development can be done cheaply. In the south, land compensation accounts for 90% of cost of infrastructure building, so the ROK government can do with $100 billion what it cost $1 trillion to do in the South. The ROK government’s cost of North Korea’s infrastructure rebuilding is only $250~300 billion total, but there are several trillions worth of natural resources buried in North Korea, all belonging to the ROK government after the takeover, and this alone is worth far more than what the ROK government needs to pay. With a debt load of just 38%, this cost amounts to just 10 month worth of the ROK government’s annual budget, so the government’s debt load would still be less than 70% of the GDP after paying for the infrastructure rebuilding, considered to be healthy compared to its neighbors Japan(On its way to bankruptcy with a 240% debt) and China(also struggling with 100+% debt and Fitch just downgraded China’s sovereign debt rating to same as Japan’s a couple days ago).
North Korean Harbin H-5 bomber jets at Uiju Airfield near the North Korean town of Sinuiju, opposite the Chinese border city of Dandong
http://www.881903.com/Page/ZH-TW/newsdetail.aspx?ItemId=612874&csid=261_341
報道指中國在吉林琿春市舉行防空疏散演習
11.04.2013 21:02
北韓可能試射導彈,令朝鮮半島緊張局勢近日升溫。韓聯社報道,在接壤北韓的中國吉林省琿春市,今早舉行大規模防空防災疏散演習,市中心響起警報,居民去到指定的地下防空洞躲避,演習歷時約三十分鐘,有數百人,包括居民、救災部門及醫療人員參與。報道引述北京消息人士指,策劃今次演習,有可能是要防備朝鮮半島萬一出現緊急情況。 另外,日本共同社記者指,早上在遼寧丹東的鴨綠江,清楚見到對岸的北韓新義州,有最少五十名士兵從直升機跳傘,進行空降訓練,持續大約兩小時,記者並且拍下照片。共同社形容是非常罕見。讀賣新聞就指解放軍瀋陽部隊,已前往丹東的中朝邊境附近,加強戒備。
Reported held in Jilin Hunchun air defense evacuation drills
11.04.2013 21:02
North Korea may test-fire a missile, the tensions on the Korean Peninsula recently warming. Yonhap news agency, Hunchun in China bordering North Korea, this morning held a large-scale air defense disaster prevention and evacuation drills, downtown alarm sounds, residents go to underground shelters to escape to the specified exercises lasted about 30 minutes, hundreds of people, including residents disaster relief departments and medical personnel involved. The report quoted sources in Beijing means planning this exercise, it is possible to prepare for the Korean peninsula in case of an emergency situation. In addition, Japan’s Kyodo News reporter refers to the morning to see clearly the other side of the Yalu River in Dandong, the North Han Xinyi state least 50 soldiers parachuting from a helicopter, airborne training, lasts about two hours, reporters and photographed. Kyodo News agency described is very rare. Yomiuri Shimbun pointed the PLA Shenyang forces, has traveled to the Sino-Korean border near Dandong, stepped up security.
There was a surprise civilian evacuation drill held at China’s border city of Hunchun, to prepare for a possible North Korean bombing. The air-raid siren went off and civilians fled to per-designated bomb shelters and the drill lasted for 30 minutes.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2013/04/11/2003559323
Of course Taiwan won’t say it will drop its claims(Taiwan may give Diaoyu Island away in exchange for Japan’s recognition of Taiwan), but Taiwan will obviously not raise this issue from now on.
This allows Japan to focus its attention on China’s assault.
The bid problem with canard and stealth is if the canard elevates and creates a nice vertical reflector normal to incident radar from the front.
Solutions
Make the canard from a non reflecting material
“non-reflecting” material is fiber-glass, which isn’t as strong as carbon fiber.
no, China already agreed to a similar fishery deal with Japan back in 1997. Taiwan gained the the fishery rights to the southern part of Daiyu Island without compromising its sovereignty claim. in the long run, this should serve as a model for joint resource development in East China Sea.
The Australian
by: Rick Wallace, Tokyo correspondent
From: The Australian
April 12, 2013 12:00AMJAPAN has shocked China by suddenly striking a pact with Taiwan on fishing rights around the disputed Senkaku Islands, which are claimed by all three parties.
Tokyo and Taipei had laboured through 16 rounds of talks on the issue since 1996 without result.
But yesterday they suddenly announced a deal to give Taiwanese trawlers access to fishing grounds within Japan’s exclusive economic zone around the islands.
Analysts say the pact strikes a significant precedent in putting resource sharing above sovereignty in disputed areas and will increase pressure on China to adopt this approach.
The agreement is a double blow for Beijing – it opposes any deals that could be perceived as granting Taiwan nation-like status and it shows Japan would prefer Taiwan to be in its corner in the tussle over the Senkakus.
A spokesman for China’s Foreign Ministry decried the deal. “We are extremely concerned about Japan and Taiwan discussing and signing a fishing agreement,” he said.
“We hope that Japan earnestly abides by its promises on the Taiwan issue and acts cautiously and appropriately.”
In January, Japanese coastguard ships fired water cannons at a Taiwanese coast guard vessel that was guarding a protest boat carrying activists hoping to erect a statue on the disputed islands.
With yesterday’s pact, it appears Taiwan has shelved its claim to the islands in return for joint fishing rights to a large swath of territory, but not including waters within Japan’s 12 nautical mile (22.2km) territorial limit.
University of Sydney associate professor John Lee said it was a smart move from Taiwan and Japan that would increase pressure on China to set aside some of its territorial disputes and reach commercial resolutions to them.
“The fact that Taiwan has come to a commercial compromise without settling the sovereignty issue is precisely what the rest of the region and the US has been urging China to do,” he told The Australian.
“This places a lot of pressure on China to come to similar agreements in various disputes.”
China, though, believed time was on its side and would try to resist this pressure, he said.
The pact was expected to be popular with key fishing constituencies in Taiwan and might help the ailing Ma government revive its political stocks.
Professor Lee said it also helped Japan press its credentials as a “constructive” player in Asian diplomacy as it moved to implement more active and assertive foreign polices under Shinzo Abe.
The Senkakus are known as the Diaoyu Islands in mainland China and the Tiaoyutai Islands in Taiwan. The dispute over them erupted last September when Japan purchased three of the five outcrops in the East China Sea from their private owner.
China recently boycotted a ceremony for the second anniversary of the east Japan earthquake and tsunami over the presence of a Taiwanese representative. Japan recognises Taiwan as part of China in accordance with Beijing’s wishes, but it also hosts permanent representatives from Taiwan.