SlowManThe ROK defense minister claimed yesterday that his troops would be able to destroy 70% of North Korea’s military strength in 5 days; he was seen as persuading the population to go to war and end this BS non-sense once and for all.
SlowManhttp://english.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2013/04/03/2013040301012.html
U.S. Seeks to Prevent Unilateral S.Korean Action
The U.S.’ recent show of force around the Korean Peninsula was designed to send a warning to North Korea and “reduce pressure on Seoul to take unilateral action,” White House spokesman Jay Carney told reporters Monday.
Carney was explaining why Washington recently announced the deployment in joint exercises with South Korea of hard-hitting weaponry such as B-52 bombers, B-2 stealth bombers, and F-22 fighter jets.
Carney appeared to hint that Washington does not want South Korea to respond in kind to any North Korean provocation.
“Of course, Washington is worried about provocations from Pyongyang. But it is also very worried about the possibility of South Korea taking unilateral action in response and of the situation escalating to the point that the U.S. can’t control it,” a diplomatic source in Washington said.
“The actions we have taken… have been important steps to reassure our allies, demonstrate our resolve to the North,” Carney said.
SlowManThat would be tough to answer, but i assume LMA would have made some efforts to get those frames in the desired time and a closer look at their final bid would reveal how they intend on doing this.
Lockheed’s proposal envisions a delivery of 6 Block 3I units in 2016 vs 10 required, and stretches the delivery to 2023 instead of 2020 as required.
Lockheed actually wants the whole contest be delayed by 3 years so that they could quote a more competitive price, but that now appear irrelevant because of the sequestration.
The thing is that the ROKAF needs the jets at the earliest possible date and this is why they are announcing the decision by June, so the F-35 doesn’t meet what the ROKAF really wants.
SlowManAnd didn’t South Korea also plan to licence produce F/A-18s but some issues resulted in F-16 being produced instead?
Yes, a bribe-taking military president flipped the decision at the last minute.
Because of his and his predecessor’s legacy, Korea has one of the most transparent arms acquisition process, one of few places where the US pressure doesn’t work and the bid evaluation is strictly formulaic and defensible in court against American and European law firms challenging the results.
SlowManRecent history of Boeing wins in Korea
F-X 1
F-X 2
AWACS
AH-X Attack Helicopter(Apache won yesterday)
F-X 3
KFX <= This is automatic.
— Anticipated Boeing Win —–
8 Tankers.
SlowManUpdate http://www.yonhapnews.co.kr/politics/2013/04/04/0505000000AKR20130404000152071.HTML?template=2087
Known pricing in April 2013
Boeing : $2.4 billion(electronics and logistics) + DCS items(airframe + engine) + F-15SE development cost
CASA : ???
Lockheed : $10.8 billion
Boeing : $8~9 billion
I think Boeing’s price could hit the magical $7.9 billion, which then legally binds the DAPA to take the Boeing bid as the sole bid within budget; the DAPA has no choice in this case.
SlowManSo:
— If F-35 is chosen then initial deliveries would be Block 3I and upgraded to 3F when the dev is done.
— If F-15SE is chosen then initial deliveries will be F-15SA with upgrades to SE when that dev is done.
The difference is that while F-35 Block 3I circa 2017 cannot be used for combat, the F-15SA circa 2017 can be used for combat.
Considering the state in Korea where the war could re-start at any moment, they(the ROKAF) want their combat-ready jets quick ASAP.
SlowManWell i would guess that they must factor technical evals as well..What about weapons and training commonality and interoperability? How well would the Mig29/35 fare then…?? especially with US stuff..
Only the qualified bidders are allowed to bid after passing the initial screening. If the DAPA allows a bidder to enter the contest, it is then guaranteeing that the bidder’s bid will be accepted if there are no obvious flaws with the bid and the final bid price is within the Parliament approved budget.
This was the case with the recent anti-sub helicopter bid, where the preferred MH-60R was disqualified due to price being higher than the budget, and the DAPA was forced to accept the AW-159 bid because it was within the budget and could not legally turn down the bid. Accordingly, the DAPA has no choice but is legally bound to take Boeing’s F-X bid if it is priced at $7.9 billion.
FYI, this $7.9 billion figure didn’t come out of nowhere, this was the average of preliminary price quotes from 3 participating vendors. The trouble rose when the vendors started jacking up their prices afterward.
SlowManYes, I was thinking along the same lines… 4 of the 52 Norwegian jets are early orders (2016) however the main order of 48 jets is scheduled to start in 2018.
Korean contest requires a delivery of 10 units in 2016, 12 units a year in subsequent years.
2016 : 10
2017 : 12
2018 : 12
2019 : 12
2020 : 14
==========
Total : 60
SlowManWhat would happen in an event that all three bidders go over the budget and are DQ’d?
Then the whole thing must be cancelled and be returned to the Parliament for a new authorization with a higher budget.
At or below $7.9 billion : The DAPA cannot reject bid and must take it even if the offered item is Mig-35 or Gripen C/D or something like that.
$7.9 ~ 9.5 billion : The DAPA can technically cancel the bidding, but decided to go ahead this time.
Above $9.5 billion : Automatically disqualified as the DAPA has no legal authority to sign a contract over $9.5 billion.
SlowManAnd how much would it all add up to when everything is said and done?
Boeing was known to be the lowest price bidder at the all-inclusive preliminary pricing submission back in last June, and the just released AH-X bidding result in which Boeing won by pricing 36 Apaches(8 Longbow radars) for $1.6 billion indicates an willingness of aggressive price discounts on Boeing price part.
If Boeing’s price is $7.9 billion(They don’t need to go lower as they would get 100 out of 100 on pricing at this price level) and the sole bidder at $7.9 billion, then DAPA cannot cancel the contest and is legally bound to accept Boeing’s bid.
SlowManWho will pay for that development?
The Korean government, and this will be added to the total bid price.
In return, Korean companies get an exclusive right to supply the components they developed to 3rd countries, such as Saudi Arabia.
SlowManHow the price category scoring works.
$7.9 billion : 100
.. exponential decrease
$9.5 billion : 0
Anything above $9.5 billion : disqualification.
FYI, the Silent Eagle was the top scorer in the performance evaluation while the F-35 was the last, because Lockheed couldn’t demonstrate many of evaluated performance criteria and received zero for those items.
SlowManAgain, what is covered under this contract?
http://www.dsca.mil/pressreleases/36-b/2013/Korea_13-10.pdf
F-35 unique infrared flares; reprogramming center; F-35 Performance Based Logistics. Also included: software development/integration, aircraft ferry and tanker support, support equipment, tools and test equipment, communication equipment, spares and repair parts, personnel training and training equipment, publications and technical documents, U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics personnel services, and other related elements of logistics and program support. The estimated cost is
$10.8 billion.
Seems like this FMS bid includes all of what the DAPA asked for, which was
– 60 combat ready jets.
– Spare parts for 3 years.
– Logistics infrastructure
– Personnel training(Not pilot)
But there are two problems with Lockheed’s bid
1. The DAPA wants 10 combat ready jet to be delivered by the end of 2016(Now delayed to first half of 2017 because of selection delays), and finish the delivery by 2020(Now first half of 2021). Lockheed can only deliver trainers from 2016, 2017, 2018, and 2019.
2. The absolute legal price ceiling is $9.5 billion, which this FMS price exceeds by $1 billion, hence an automatic disqualification. Lockheed will get 0 in price category even if they meet $9.5 billion, while the score is 100 if the price is at $7.9 billion.
Apache is a tested succesfull program…The F-15SE will be a one off fighter (for ROKAF) that needs to be developed…
This is not a problem, because Boeing’s proposal is that they would deliver combat ready F-15SAs by 2016 and then convert them to F-15SE when the SE configuration is ready at a later date.
Another plus is that a substantial portion of Silent Eagle upgrade development would take place in Korea, starting with the CWB.
It would be next to imposible to substantially discount such a product
Well Boeing just did. Excluding $2.4 billion worth of FMS elements, the rest are offered on a fixed, definite price term.
SlowManCompletely wrong.
No partner nation will break out.
Just wait until June to see the partner nation reaction when the Silent Eagle is declared the victor.
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