Toddington TedAgreed, very well said “O”. Whatever else is said and done, the Vulcan has the power to make people sit up and take notice. I think we have been very lucky to see it returned to flight this year given the state of peoples’ finances. Personally I think we will be very lucky ever to see this aircraft fly again after this season – we could be in for a double dip recession and when the public sector cuts really start to bite towards the end of this year then we may well see far fewer military aircraft around in any case – everything, but everything, is being carefully considered so enjoy it while you can is my view! Regarding a sponsor, well stranger things have happened but the ROI is not sufficient in my opinion – put it this way, the acid test is would you sponsor it if you had the money? (Wrong question to ask on this aerophile forum I guess?!) I would not (I’d rather buy another hangar for Newark to put their Vulcan and the other aircraft stuck outside in) but some people are at least trying by donating to the fund, so thank you anyway. I would like to think that one spinoff from the “Vulcan effect” is an increased interest in these aircraft – perhaps it will enable other Vulcan owners to “rattle the tin” to further the care and attention on their charges.
Toddington TedI think you will find that only first world war medals had the name engraved on the edge.
Campaign medals that are issued today have the name, rank and Service No engraved on the edge. Examples of medals that do not include the Queen’s Golden Jubilee Medal.
Toddington TedBoth the RAFAT and the BBMF receive some commercial sponsorship already but clearly very little when compared with the cost of running both sqns. That said, the cost of these 2 well loved organisations is in itself, very little when compared to some other areas of the Military but they are not “front line.” At the moment, if it ain’t front line: read deployable to the Stan, it ain’t safe. We shall see soon enough.
One small example of the way things are going. I was amazed last Thursday when walking out of the 1960s fun palace at Cranwell at lunchtime to meet some visitors, to find the rose bed in front of the building, which has been there for the last decade to my personal knowledge, being ripped out and replaced with soil which was then seeded with grass seed. The roses were, of course, now coming into bloom. I was told that this was happening at many locations on “Campus Cranwell” because it lowers the grounds maintenance contract costs. Small savings but they can and do, have an effect on morale. As for me, I’m now a civvy so my blood pressure doesn’t get up so much these days but its still sad to see the military declining in some ways. However, like I said, we will see. The RAF is still recruiting but the numbers going through Cranwell for example, are lower at the moment. Less than 2 years ago we were preparing for a surge which seems to have abruptly halted, which I guess is not particularly surprising given the financial uncertainty.
Toddington TedPresumably you won’t be based there as RAF Uxbridge itself has just closed! (Unless you have been sent there to turn out the lights!)
Toddington TedQ6
Perhaps it’s the North Eastern Railway’s Q6 0-8-0 designed by Raven, shown here in LNER livery. Not the prettiest I’ll admit but a long lived class and 1 working example is preserved on the North York Moors Railway.
Toddington Ted“Fussed over continuously!” – that sounds like an excellent motto or perhaps even a ‘mission statement’! 😀
Now that I have just retired from the RAF I would like this motto to apply to me too, preferably undertaken by attractive scantily clad women who weren’t born for half my life……….3 2 1 you’re back in the room!
Toddington Ted🙁 end of an era 🙁
Rest assured mate, the that go to museums, active or otherwise will be well looked after 🙂
I certainly hope so but there is no cast iron guarantee of that. The sad fact is that the Nimrod is, relatively speaking, a large aircraft which, if the track record of some other large museum aircraft displayed outside in the UK is anything to go by, runs the risk of rotting in the British climate. The only thing which will stop it is much tlc by a dedicated band of volunteers who may be diverted from other museum and aircraft collection tasks. This is by no means a criticism, but an observation. The fantastic efforts by the folks at Newark and the East Midlands Aero Park show what can be done with a good team but a large aircraft left outside is going to deteriorate unless fussed over continuously by loving carers.
Toddington TedMuseum Piece?
I handed in my RAF ID card today, during a somewhat long and, at times, stangely satisfying clearance procedure, and so I’m now officially a “relic.” Does this mean that I can live in the Cold War Museum at Cosford?
The above can be treated as a rhetorical question but feel free to have a pop at me now that I’m a “stinking civvy!” (Sadly, when I joined, an awful lot of the stuff in that museum was in service – but not the Valiant I might add!):D
Toddington TedCracking one kev35! I rather think we now have the answer from the man who knows (exmpa).
Toddington Ted“Add all this to the fact that with all training moving away from Cosford and the delay of the takeover of the base by the Army till somewhere around 2018.”
Indeed, but even this is still by no means certain! In any event, not all of Cosford would move anyway just DCAE and DCCIS (well OK that’s most of it!) and the new technical fun palace at St Athan is still not decided yet. £13 billion is a lot even over 25 years and the contract signature date keeps moving to the right. Personally, I can’t see the Defence Technical College at St Athan being anything like the shiny plans I’ve seen, even if all military techiocal training moves there.
Toddington TedSadsack, the MRA4’s are still destined to enter RAF service, but it’s anybody’s guess when this will actually be, despite the official dates which get thrown about. The first one was scheduled to go to Boscombe Down quite a long (long!) time ago, and that the aircraft will enter service towards the end of 2011 at a rough estimate – unless there are any new difficulties. Whether they’ll ever go to Kinloss though is another question open for debate, and much will depend on the outcome of the infamous Defence Review which will presumably take place in June. We might know more for certain then – or then again we might not!
But then, a Nimrod MRA4 sure ain’t no Nimrod! You have to marvel at the absurdity of building a new aircraft around an ancient fuselage!
Regarding the MR4A, the latest from this link:
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?c=AIR&s=TOP&i=4535359
RAF Accepts 1st Nimrod MRA4
By andrew chuter
Published: 11 Mar 2010 14:12
LONDON – The first BAE Systems Nimrod MRA4 maritime surveillance aircraft destined for the Royal Air Force has been formally accepted and declared ready for crew training by Britain’s Ministry of Defence.
The aircraft is the first of nine MRA4s ordered to fulfill maritime and wider intelligence surveillance, target acquisition and reconnaissance roles for the air force here.
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Air Warfare
Handover of the first production aircraft may have taken place but it will be 2012 before the machine is introduced into service following a decision by the government late last year to delay its operational debut in order to help cut Britain’s defense equipment overspend.
The decision also involved taking the current Nimrod MR2 surveillance aircraft out of service at the end of this month, 12 months earlier than planned. The move leaves Britain with no credible long-range maritime surveillance capability for about two years.
The MR2’s exit from service was hurried by a 2006 crash in Afghanistan that killed 14 and raised questions about its safety.
Defense ministers have said the gap between the departure of the MR2 and the arrival of the MRA4 will be covered by helicopters and Lockheed Martin Hercules C-130s.
The first MRA4 has moved from the Woodford, England, production facility to BAE’s Warton site for RAF crew training. The machine is scheduled to transfer to its main operating base at Kinloss, Scotland, in late summer once an initial release to service and a support contract are in place.
The second of the nine production standard MRA4s flew earlier this month and deliveries of the nine aircraft are planned to be complete by 2012.
Eight of the aircraft were heavily upgraded MR2 airframes with new engines and missions systems.
The ninth aircraft is one of three pre-production aircraft originally upgraded by BAE for test flying. The remaining two test machines will be placed in storage having already retired from the development program.
Delivery of the final aircraft will see BAE close the Woodford manufacturing site near Manchester later in the year.
The formal acceptance of the first aircraft is a further step toward the conclusion of a program which has been dogged for years by technical issues and cost overruns.
Twenty-one of the aircraft were originally ordered by the MoD with an in-service date of 2003. The number of airframes has been continually reduced: first to 18 and then to 12 before the government finally settled on just nine aircraft.
So it looks as if the “all new” Mighty Hunter will be a relatively rare bird compared to its predecessor. Until it does actually enter service at ISK then we will be having what is quaintly known as a “capability holiday” I believe. I never took the chance to have a flight in a Nimrod MR2 but time has run out for both of us as I retire next Wednesday!
Toddington TedVery nice to see these schemes popping up. I wonder how nice a Tucano would look in a silver and dayglow orange set up as per the older JP’s….
I’d vote for that! (Showing my age here!)
Toddington TedNo, but its interesting that there appear to be no guns in the front turret. What are the 2 white rings in the perspex nose? Were they part of an IFF system? I seem to remember something about a mechanism to stop bomber steams shooting each other down or am I totally up the creek with this one?
Toddington TedAm I wrong, or wasn’t the original funding from the “Lotto” people on condition of educational purposes. plus a flying life of 10 years ?? If that is correct how is it educational for school children when they can’t get near the aeroplane to see it or get in it etc, unless their parents stump up loads of money to go to an airshow When this all started I thought it would be on show at somewhere like Duxford where they cater for schools ,and when there were several school parties in attendance, maybe it would make a 20 minute flight. But as it is an old warplane, then it needs lots of maintainence and money, so it’s flying is quite restricted isn’t it
As it has done 3 years then 7 remain, will there be another multi appeal then ?
Forgive me for digressing from aviation for just a minute but this was a problem for our steam locomotive owning group when they applied for a lottery grant a few years ago. We had tried before in the mid 90s and the same answer came out, not educational enough as regards access and yet some other steam locos managed it. I think it all rests with your case, so to speak. Having been turned down before, I was not happy with relying on lottery money because of the conditions it imposed, but it was academic anyway as we were turned down again. A little strange given that it is the oldest preserved GWR locomotive not in State ownership (built October 1905) but the lottery folk maintained that there would be insufficient educational access. As the boiler passed its hydraulic test last week and a steam test is imminent then our own money has been used in the end. Unlike a Vulcan however, we can pull 1000 tons of anything (including people who want to throw money at gee gees at Cheltenham) and you can cook your breakfast on a shovel. Unfortunately over 30mph the footplate is a little lively as they say – its a goods loco after all but it is the oldest of its kind! My money’s on the loco not the tin triangle (much as I love both!)
Toddington TedHow exactly were ‘this useless bloody shower’ as you eloquently put it going to start the winter service before funds were available?
Only now, can they afford to start the work. If they’d had the money it would have probably started ages ago.
As for June being the middle of the display season! Err, reality check. There’s not a lot going on in May apart from Duxford and Southend airshow. Duxford didn’t want them anyway and the smaller shows couldn’t possibly afford a Vulcan display.
My guess is they’ll probably aim for Cosford on the 13th June, which is certainly not in the middle of the season in anyone’s book. 😀
There is also the Abingdon 2010 Air Show on 2 May (see separate thread) which already seems to have quite a line-up. But the Vulcan won’t be there then.
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