Toddington TedWhilst it would be great to see a Shackleton fly again, I don’t think there would be the financial support to justify it but I do believe that those like Nashio966 are doing a fantastic job preserving these fine old maritime patrol/AEW aircraft. Having seen the Shackleton in RAF service and better still having flown in one as an air cadet, I’m perhaps less wistful of not seeing one around today actually flying. My log book records WL747 for 5 and 3/4 hours (a relatively short flight for a Shackleton I guess!) on 14 Aug 74 at RAF Wattisham. The aircraft had arrived for a couple of days on North Sea AEW flights with the resident Lightnings and I was one of the fortunate few whose name came out of the hat for a trip. The skipper even let me have a go at flying it, doing gentle turns onto headings as he called them out. Happy days!:)
Toddington TedIt’s a long time since I travelled past Worthy Down on my way to Portsmouth from the Midlands but I know that it has been in Army hands for many years and is now part of DE&S (logistics). I have found a snippet from the Forces’ Website on its history:
History of Worthy Down
The history of Worthy Down can be traced back to the Iron Age when it was known to be the site of an ancient village of the Belgae. Traces of the settlement are still visible at certain times ofthe year from the air.
The current association with the Military began in 1917 when the Wireless and Observers School was established in October of that year. Over the next 35 years or so Worthy Down was known primarily as a flying station and became host to most senior officers and airmen in the Royal Air Force at some stage in their career, indeed, Air Marshal ‘Bomber’ Harris was a
Squadron Commander and later Station Commander of Worthy Down. In 1942 it was decided to cease using the airfield, infamous for its uphill landing, which by then had become unsuitable for modern aircraft. Thereafter Worthy Down was gradually reduced to a care and maintenance
station until 1952 when it was re-commissioned as HMS Ariel. It remained in the hands of the Royal Navy until late 1960 when it transferred to the Army, and the Royal Army Pay Corps Electronic Accounting Development Unit moved from Devizes into its new Computer Centre.
This move marked the start of a 32 year association by the RAPC with Worthy Down, and more importantly, the City of Winchester. The Corps was honoured in 1970 by being granted The Freedom of The City of Winchester a right which has been exercised as recently as April 1992,
when the RAPC marched to the Guildhall to mark the disbandment of the corps. The honour was transferred to the AGC on 11 April 1996.
Since 1960 a major building and reconstruction programme has been undertaken and purpose built buildings now stand in pleasant landscaped surroundings. Not much is now left of the old Worthy Down. The grass East-West runway is now let for agricultural purposes and the aircraft
hangars have long gone from the camp itself. However, some married quarters, the Guardroom, the main block of the Officers’ Mess and the soldiers accommodation built in the 1930s still survive. The original pump house, which brings up the water from an artisan well, still serves the
camp well. The interested person can still see other traces in and around the whole area. These include the hardened ammunition bunkers and the old perimeter circuit near South Wonston.
I hope this has been of some value to you.
Toddington TedMany thanks for sharing the photos. Some of the aircraft look a good deal tidier than they were on my last visit (a lot of work on the Gannet by the look of it) and its been at least a year since my last visit. I must go again soon; its a great place but they need another hangar as well.
Toddington TedOn a normal working RAF station the Ensign will be raised at 0730 (L), lowered winter 1630 (L) summer 1800 (L) I think thats when the clocks change, but the up and down remains local time. Thats from Queens regs.
Hope that helps.Cheers
Baz
Hmmm, that’s interesting; at every RAF unit I have served at, including the current one, the Ensign is raised at 0800 (L) and lowered at 1800 (L) in the Summer and 1600 (L) in the Winter. However, if your copy of Queen’s Regulations says otherwise then perhaps I’d better ask around!
Toddington TedMy last “Taceval” was at BZN in 1994 or thereabouts; it was somewhat surreal as the exercise still clung very much to the “Cold-War” script. As I was the Sector Commander for the Bomb Dump and Fire Dump I knew I was in for some fun! Maxival (the practice) was worse in my opinion. Not long afterwards I was witness to one of the last HP Victors landing at Brize to take up residence on the same fire dump. I wish I had “liberated” some items from the cockpit before others did but, hopefully, some bits have since found good homes on or in preserved airframes.
Toddington TedHi
Is that Ray Johnson, by any chance – if so please give him my very best, another old friend with whom I lost touch these past few traumatic years.
Many thanks
Dilip Sarkar
Yes, you are correct; I will see Ray hopefully at the next RAFA meeting in January.
Toddington TedCoincidences or what? One of the senior members of my local RAFA is ex- 152 Sqn (Armourer) and he showed me a scrapbook a couple of months ago that he had made of the Sqn’s history, including the “Pooch”. 152 Sqn, as you probably all know, served in the Far East later in WWII flying Spit Mk VIIIs and most of the scrapbook is from this period.
Toddington TedLiving not far from my present location, Grantham, Richard Todd was very much one of the Town’s adopted “sons.” Earlier this year, I was preparing for an evening (Railway) club meeting in the town when, out of a lovely summer’s early evening sky roared those 4 merlin engines and that black bomber. Richard Todd was having a “small” birthday party at Grantham House down the road. An unforgettable sight seeing the Lanc flying (relatively) low over the small town to salute him.
Toddington TedBest:
March 2008 as a pax in a Chinook from LKG in Helmand to Kandahar then, after a mortar attack from Terry, (never heard any incoming though) getting on to the TriStar back to Blighty in time for my tourex on my 53rd birthday!
Worst:
I could count the flight out to Kandahar in November 2007 but it wasn’t bad really – I was just a little nervous (!)
Worst with me in charge:
Running out of runway at Bodmin in an old Cessna 150 (well it is a tiny grass field and the wind had dropped and the grass was wet and I didn’t select full flap when I should have and…. I learned about flying from that.) I just managed to stop with the prop touching the hedge. One of the resident instructors afterwards remarked something about people usually flying through the hedge!
Toddington TedMy understanding is that discussions have been ongoing since the summer and that the information was only posted on the museum website in response to comments being made on other fora.
For me there is added poignancy to how the timing has evolved – one of the 14 killed in the crash lived locally, in a village that I am familiar with and is only five miles from the museum.
If things work out for this project, IMHO then perhaps some form of memorial to the 14 might be appropriate; and please don’t lets fall out about this!
Tonight, my thoughts are with the 14 and their families.
No falling out from me; a memorial would be fitting. I knew 2 of the crew (not well I’ll admit) but as I’m still serving in the RAF the affinity is strong and so is the hurt.
Toddington TedThe Nimrod itself has potentially many years left especially with the MRA4 programme. The core to this problem is goverment funding in the MOD or lack of! Cost cutting is to blame here, not the aircraft!
Sorry Phantom Phil, I respect your view and do not disagree with it entirely; but funding isn’t the only answer; trying to do more and more with an ageing airframe is asking for trouble and yet that is what we have done.
Toddington TedAm I alone in thinking that it is somewhat ironic that we are discussing the saving of a Nimrod airframe on the same day when we were told quite categorically that we had it in our collective hands to save one with 14 crew and did not do so?
The McNamara Fallacy might have something to do with it: “Everything must be counted, anything that cannot be counted does not count. Money is easily counted and all too soon money becomes the key for everything.”
How did we sleepwalk into this? We are flying museum pieces and it must stop.:mad:
Toddington TedThe Tornado Effect perhaps?
If tonight’s programme has the effect on Airfix models that the Top Gear Team (Mr Clarkson particularly) had on the new A1 Pacific “Tornado” locomotive then that can only be for the good. I found the programme to be not only entertaining – which was its main intention I’m sure, but also very heart-warming. For those who have flown a Spitfire or, like me, just aspired to dream (in my case the nearest thing that I was permitted to fly on my own and feel pretty good about was the Chipmunk!) Mr May summed it up very well indeed with those few words which I’m sure will be quoted in the future, “This is a Supermarine Spitfire and I have just flown it.” It also showed the power of nostalgia and the importance of “hands-on” practical teaching for young people. I also got to see my current RAF “big boss” on TV too – and yes, he is a big chap!
Toddington TedXL191, you beat me to it! The incident is indeed still used today as “the classic” example in RAF CRM courses.
Toddington TedThanks for the comments Martin – most people are also happy to pay their entrance fee.
At Newark we all look forward to the day that XS417 is back in a silver scheme like my avatar, especially as the Squadron is now resident in the local area! 😉
Here! Here! However, I also look forward to the day when these lovely aircraft are under cover in a nice big hangar (or 2) so that my children’s children can see them. If we don’t they won’t. It’ll take money (entrance fees and the rest) and a lot of lobbying but its possible. You only have to look how much NAM has come up in the World since the 2nd hangar was brought into use.
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