ROK T-50 mix could be an option to replace both Alpha Jets and F-16.

The POAF Vipers just went through a major structural upgrade that gave them something like 4000 hours of flying, that means at least decade and a half to two decades of operational service, i would be a mit surprised if the T50 would still be in production in that time frame (unless the USAF…)

Cheers

Hello dear people,

One of my most favorite air arms in Europe is that of Portugal. I have a long standing relation with this beautiful country and with it’s Air Force. The FAP looks a very different force nowadays when compared with that of the first year I visited it back in 1987 (when T-33/T-38’s flew from Beja, Gina’s from Montijo and the great A-7’s from BA5) :love-struck:

In the past few years the country was hit by a economical disaster, and now I would like to know what should be the future of this nations air arm. With the F-16 (MLU) as it’s backbone for many years to come, several other issues needs attention; Alouette III helicopters still soldier on, but are almost finnished. Used in various roles, the transit from Alouette to Merlin is practical impossible… the Alpha Jet is only flying in very limited numbers (I belief only seven are in flying condition) and needs to be replaced, one candidate could be the PC-21 (has been offered). Also, the C-130 (to be upgraded or not?) needs some way of being improved, or replaced by, as mentioned by some sources, the EMBRAER (K)C-390. Let’s talk….

Cheers

There´s not much to discuss really, the equipment that is flying today will be maintained untill it desintegrates, any upgrade will be minimal and there wont be no new kit for a very long, long, long time.
An interesting side note, the FAP Alouette fleet made the 50 years old mark this year, and the Alpha Jet fleet turned 20 years.

By the way, great we hve solved this slight miss-understanding 🙂

X2 🙂

Dear Sintra,

I do reply to your post simply as I see you generally as a respectable poster. But fact is that I do no like the way you finger pointing me here.

Sorry, i apologise, in no way i wanted to point anything to you, you are more than entitled to have your own opinion, and i should respect it.

To get a full description of the deal, you’ll probably hve to makes some search as I did especially for you on the above post. But let me say that I did read the story in the local news paper and made my own arithmetic to get the price per plane.

I have, we can find a few snipets in the Brasilian press, it was the typical contract for getting started a new unit with a new aircraft, it includes training for the first batch of pilots and instructors, logistical suport (not mentioned the duration) and spares.

You have to understand that the plane is tailored around the user specs like most others deal and this create some discrepancies on the overall cost. But you know that alrdy. And this is really what annoy me the most regarding our overall ability to debate in a constructive manner.

Also, quantity factor in the overall price. Buying 6 plane is way different than buying 200 (US) or 25 (Colombia – first deal from my own mem).

yes, Colombia did makes good use of its A29. But not because of the plane, but because of its more up-to-date system.

True.

Please understand that in my view, Embraer did not upgrade the plane perfs to makes it more competitive. Kinetics perfs were left aside when the next step was obvious: lighten the structure, reduce the overall nbr of parts, increase max speed/max TOW (they could, for example, hve cut that long tail and compensate for the loss of stability via FBW – which wld hve been a good exercise for their industry – but they did not forgetting that Kings are their to be overthrown).

I have to disagree on this one, a great big chunk of the weight increase was made in order to have a more robust airframe (pylons, the ceramics bathtube around the pilot, the engine, etc), if there´s one thing that this particular aircraft, in this particular role doesnt need is a lightened structure and FBW. Taking off and landing from dirty ground stripes in the Amazon or somewhere in Sub Saharan Africa (or A´stan), being operated by Airforces with very low resources dont go too well with FBW or lightned airframes. That aircraft is already 7,5 G´s capable and it can fly more than 8 hours, so…

Yes, 20M is a lot of cash in a competitive world. That some like Denel, Cessna are bullying in, does not surprise me. The world belong to the discontented.

I would be astounded if no one was “bullying” its way in, Air Tractor seems on the verge of making a few more “combat tractor´s”.

j8IIm will be perfect for them.

Spock, beam this chap to Enterprise… Please?

they need plane to intercept bombers. do you not see timing of this and when russia invade their air space?

Yes, Colombia needs interceptors from the 60´s in order to intercept Russian Bombers… Colombia, New Zealand and the Penguins in the South Pole.

j8ii is design to fastly catch the bombers and shoot them down. its old plane yes, but the performance is perfect for this kind of mission and china still update it with newest things. it can have aesa too if they want.

with a few of these they can send many russian bomber into the ocean no problem.

china already sell them weapon to fight their internal problem so relationship is good.

Dont forget the invisible Klingon bombers!

Exactly… a safe, easy program on which the work had already been done a decade before (twas actually better than the Viper A2A back then).:p

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Oh yes, the F-5G Tigershark had the STOL capability, the range, payload and the directional data link that the Gripen had, did it? And the AN/APG-67 was a marvelous thing by comparison with the more capable swedish set that was on the… Viggen´s nose (nevermind the Gripen)! And it had the same data link capability that was present in the Viggen had it?
It would quite a fun thing to see a Tigershark trying to emulate what the Swedes did with their aircrafts in dispersed sites and roads, how do you say “busted Landing gear” and “not enough wing”?

LRIP 7 Cost of 112 is actually quite good….Of course everyone would like it lower, i think its well on track for an extremely competitive price once the jet hits full rate of production

112 million is a few millions above what the USAF was expecting just six months ago and 11 millions more over the 101,289 million US$ that the USAF wrote in its February 2012 “Department of Defense Fiscal Year (FY) 2013 President’s Budget Submission” for LRIP07.

The Price i pointed out from the Lot 24 SAR, that is official US government report on acquisition.

EDIT: A google search lead me to the website of UK’s NAO which had this :

Modern missiles are expensive, for example, the unit cost of Meteor missile is £2.1 million – Comptroller and Auditor General, The Major Projects Report 2011, Session 2010–2012, HC 1520, Volume II, page 11, National Audit Office, November 2011.

http://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/10149-001-Carrier.full-report.pdf

Apples to Oranges, you´ve compared the entire Uk Plc part of the Meteor program divided by the number of rounds acquired with the acquisition cost of one lot of Slammers´s for the Pentagon. Its exactly the same has comparing the “Recurring Fly Away Unit Cost” of an airframe with the entire “Program Unit Cost” of another airframe.