Well, the SH has a bigger combat radius than an EF, both planes in similar configuration (internal only, 1 EFT, 2 EFTs, 3 EFTs, internal + future conformals).
No, the Typhoon has a bigger range on internal, and it has a slightly smaller combat Radius on external because no one asked Eurofighter for 2000L external´s (the SH external Tanks are twice the size than the ones for Phoon).
On July 7, 2009, IPA7 with six EPIV, two IRIS-T and four AIM-120 flew for more than two hours (two hours and seven minutes) on internal only, a SH wont do that.
Than the Eurofighter is even worse, since it has a smaller radius than the SH. And, with conformals and no EFTs, the SH has about the range of the EF with 3 EFTs.
Just like Boeing is proposing conformals for the SH, so is Eurofighter, and while no SH has any modification to carry them, the first T3A Phoon is already on the production line and, told by someone who saw it, the fittings for CFT´s are clearly visible on that particular airframe.
Cheers
So the USAF has to choose between the trainer that could directly replace the F-16 from the training course and save money by reducing overall flight training hours, or go to the ground-based simulator heavy training model proposed by BAE.
The T-50 is vastly more expensive to operate than a Hawk, the Raptor is a very, very, very small part of the USAF fleet and i would love to see your sources for the details of Northrop/BAE proposal…
As I said before, it’s easier to develop new weapons that develop a new fighter.
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHH, dont tell to no one! 😮
Someone might get ideas of developing weapons with range, speed, good sensors, datalinks, small signatures and use them on high threat scenarios on non LO platforms!
Some chaps might get the notion that with the correct weapons an all LO force could be a bit unnecessary! And we dont want that do we?!
Cheap shot, i know, very sorry… 😮
This is the price you pay for a straight purchase of the F414.
The Indian deal included tech transfer and tooling(RR offered to lease the tooling, while GE offered to give away the tooling) for a license production, and that’s why it cost 50% more.
?!
Offcourse that its the cost of a straight purchase, i´ve taken the number directly from the US Navy budget!
That’s a mainland European comma, I presume, i.e. a decimal point, not a thousands separator. 😀
😀 Hell, one engine costing the entire 2012 Defense budget of Denmark!
wtf ?!
I asked a friend who sells GE engines, IIRC the price for an F414 was around $700.000,
i’ll ask again when she comes back in a couple of months tho
In 2012 each GE414 costs the US Navy 4,592 million US$.
Cheers
Engines are the most valuable part for a jet, airframe doesn’t worth much, build new jets would be cheaper than new engines
If we are talking of combat jets the airframe is by far, the most expensive part of an combat aircraft. At least in the “west”.
An example, the cost of the airframe of a 2012 Growler goes for 37,144.056 million US$, the two engines cost 9,184.519 million US$, the contract funded electronics 18,166.306 million US$ and the Government funded electronics go for 1,725.016 million US$.
http://www.finance.hq.navy.mil/FMB/12pres/APN_BA1-4_BOOK.pdf
Now you’re standing it on its head. Over the years this has been going on, for every time anyone’s given the numbers that way round I’ve seen ten cases of someone comparing the F-35 flyaway price (often in 2002 prices) with the programme cost of Typhoon.
Exactly what you are describing was a specialty of Jack De Vries, the ex Dutch state secretary for defense procurement (who after getting out of the government ended up employed by a lobbying company who worked for Lockheed Martin). In several ocasions he compared a theoretical ” Fly Away Unit Cost” for the F-35A with program costs or export package costs of the competition, the Typhoon, the Rafale, Gripen, etc.
He did this on the press, on the parlament, etc, etc…
Anyone who have any doubts on what i am saying just have to google.
Mind you, by 2001 LM and DOD officials were doing that trick in every European MOD secretary, i dont have any doubts that this particular “methodology” (comparing a theoretical “Recurring Fly Away Unit Costs” for thousands of JSF´s with program costs for the competition) was official policy.
It’s obvious that your sole purpose is to make trouble.
You think so?
Also notice how when people discuss costs on the EF program then only talk about fly away. When the F-35 is discussed, you get the costs over 50 years LOL.
Here we go, we have found a winner!
Congratulations…
In this last page and a half you were presented with at least three diferent cost indicators for the Typhoon, Scorpion indicated whats the cost to produce one single T3A Typhoon (very roughly equivalent to the US DOD “Fly Away Unit Cost”) based on numbers given at the press conference after the 31st July 2009 Typhoon Tranche 3A contract signing, Jacko introduced the latest UK NAO UPC numbers, (available in the “Ministry of Defence: The Major Projects Report 2011”) and myself and Aurcov have compared the “Program Cost” of the JSF and Eurofighter using US DOD/GAO and UK NAO documents
You, Sir, are a Troll.
Is there any central, audited cost analysis for the Typhoon program akin to that published by the US DoD for the F-35 program, particularly one that provides various costings calculated using a defined methodology
Yes, both the UK NAO and the Spanish Mindef publish every year their acounts for the Eurofighter program.
Being an English speaking forum i´ll leave here the relevant links for the UK NAO.
http://www.nao.org.uk/publications/1012/major_projects_report_2011.aspx
The yearly report on the major projects report.
http://www.nao.org.uk/publications/1011/management_of_typhoon_project.aspx
The latest NAO “Phoon only” doc.
(similar to those used by the US DoD)?
No, the methodology used by the US DOD is not identical to their British and generaly speaking, to their European counterparts (who use vastly diferent methods between them).
You wont find a UK MOD document with a line called “Recurring Unit Fly Away Cost”.
Or: You figure out the guys running the SAM site, and offer them four dozen camels, or a McD franchise on Newport Beach, plus first class tickets for them and their family out of the country.
That particular technique has some pretty robust historical background…
And, of course, the Israelis have built & exported one, in two variants.
I was thinking in terms of air launched munitions, but yes, Harpy and Harop fit the requirement.
The weapon system cost for the first F 35 exported is 128 million (engine included,. BTW). : http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/29/us-lockheed-fighter-japan-idUSBRE85S0VE20120629
128 million? Are you sure that this is the “weapon system cost”?
That number is almost identical to the F-35A “Fly Unit Cost” for FY13 (http://www.saffm.hq.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-110211-038.pdf), and the FMS cant export at lower costs than what the Pentagon pays.
Well, if the production contract is only placed in 2014 or 2015, then that would explain it.
Cheers
It’s still a high price–175 million each. More expensive then an F 35.
Well maybe that will happen in the future, but not today.
The JSF program unit cost might end cheaper if the production numbers are maintained (far from certain) and if the Development and procurement costs dont go up (they have been going up every year).
If those two variables dont change (2443 JSF´s for 395.7$ billion), then yes, the Program unit cost would be in the vicinity of 161$ million in “then year dollars”, so cheaper that the equivalent number for the Eurofighter.
If we were comparing today´s “Unit Program Costs” we would have to divide the number of F-35 contracted till now by the amount spent till now… An absolutely terrifying number… Wich would have been a bit silly, because unless the Mayan prediction for the end of the world in 2012 really happens, there will be more production contracts.
In the end, the JSF “Program Unit Cost” (and every program) is dependent on the numbers that get built, the production is starting now, while the Eurofighter closing is not that far ahead, its a bit early to make a direct comparison.
Cheers
ps- The Eurofighter program proved that politics can “boondoongle” entirely the costs for any given military program, four assembly lines for a production run of +- 600 airframes, briliant, absolutely briliant…