SintraHow strange that this has not been widely reported in the UK press…. or for that matter posted widely on forums like this….. Good news is no news it seems
1º The report was released just a few days ago (16-11-2011)
2º The chaps like Lewis Page arent writing articles about how the British tax payer his going to pay at least 10% less than what was reported six months ago, are they?
One of the reasons that i would love to see the Typhoon win the MRCA was imagining the reactions of chaps like the aforementioned LPage or Sharkey Ward… 😀
SintraI am told that Dassault paid out of their own pockets about 25% of Rafale development costs. Am I right in thinking that Eurofighter has contributed 0% to Typhoon development costs?
On the tack of the lack of A2G weapons integrated on the Typhoon: why did Eurofighter not fund integration of weapons out if their own pockets – to be retrieved from the partner countries later with interest – so that the prospects of Typhoon were improved in possible export contracts?
What does it cost to integrate, say, Brimstone? Are we talking 10 million euros? 50 million?
1º No, just one example, the AESA development effort has had some governement funding, but its a Industry “mainly thingy”. But i would imagine that in terms of % its not even near with what the French industry contributed to the Rafale program.
2º Like the MBDA Meteor?
3º Dificult to answer, but this will give you an idea:
“Historic +290 million Pounds – Changed Capability Requirement
Provision for integration of new weapons and sensors not contained within original approval (includes Conventionally Armed Stand-Off Missile, Advanced Anti-Armour Weapon, Low-Level Laser Guided Bomb, thermal imaging airborne laser designator) (+£239m) & the retrofit of Tranche 1 aircraft to Tranche 2 standard (+£117m).Deletion of requirements for gun (-£32m), 1500L fuel tank (-£16m), CRV7 Rocket (-£2m) & Air Launched Anti Radiation Missile (-£21m). Conventionally Armed Stand-Off Missile integration”
TYPHOON Project Summary
Sheets Page 194 of 286
ps- For the “nerds” (me included) the UK NAO “Ministry of Defence: The Major Projects Report 2011” just got released, the “cost to complete” the Typhoon program for the RAF just got two+ billion pounds lower than what was in the equivalent report last year. I think that the Saudi payments just kicked in (and throws the entire NAO : Ministry of Defence: Management of the Typhoon Project report into “chaos”, “yes we forgot the Saudi thingy, its just couple and a half of billion pounds less than what we´ve written a few months ago”…).
http://www.nao.org.uk/publications/1012/major_projects_report_2011.aspx
SintraYo, i can’t get any of the above links to work.. Could you pls repost it?
Probably because the sites are “dead”. Those posts are almost a decade old!
Cheers
Sintra:rolleyes: Pity for EF that Mr Jamie Hunter has nothing to say in IAF, because nearly all chiefs that were in service during MRCA or MMRCA stated, that they want a multi role aircraft:
Not exactly, Rafale is good enough for India right now and in time according MMRCA requirements, while EF offers only the future potential to be good enough for India, if India pays for the upgrades and with delays. But as I said, if the industrial package of EF is that good, MoD/GoI will compromise on the technical shortcomings.
Yes, thats why the MMRCA finalists were the Super Hornet and the Viper Block 70, two “multi role”, combat proven fighters whith impecable “multi role” credentials, who by the way came on top of the gruelling 600+ points IAF evaluation…
You´ve just called incompetents to the entire IAF evaluation team.
Technical shortcomings indeed.
If your arguments had any tracking with reality, the Typhoon would have been disqualified around the time when it landed at Leh.
Strawman arguments and an awfull lot of wishfull thinking around here.
SintraThe other problem is that we see pictures of the EF with Storm Shadow and Taurus since 2003. We also had advertising in newspapers for awhile, and a nice Science Fiction video of EF making cruise missile missions and then escaping away from ground missiles thanks to its rocket power…
Since then it still hasn’t flown. I wonder what went wrong.
I suspect a range issue but I wonder also if there is not a FBW control issue (the fight control laws aren’t the same before and after the weapon is released and it’s not a benin problem as some want us to believe)
Talk about wishfull thinking…
Nothing went wrong. No one asked for the integration, simple has that.
It might be a surprise to some, but if no one orders (and pays) a particular integration, that particular capability wont be available to the operational sqn´s. Mais quelle surprise!
And the reason why the CASOM capability wasnt ordered till now for the Typhoon, is obvious.
Unlike the Adla and the MN who, untill the Rafale came along, were stuck with some very short legged/light load strike aircrafts , three of the Eurofighter partners (and Saudi Arabia) had enough long range strike aircrafts to fight the Zombie Armageddon.
SintraAnd where is the Thyphoon flying with a Taurus???
Or any cruise missile while we are at it?I saw the picture previous page. The Typhoon with two Taurus on the runway ready to take off. Problem is that it’s still on the runway and never took off…. since 2003!
You’re like the Eurofighter comunication department: a troll.
You are being offensive…
Sintra@Trident
You claim its in a magazine, but refuse to give me sufficiently accurate information to verify the claim. It’s hardly reasonable to expect me to trawl through every page of every magazine for a whole year to verify you claim, especially when I gave a direct link to my evidence.@Sintra
I’m not interested in whether the photo is true or not, what I’m interested in is a specific source for it (publication, date, and page number!).
This is on top of my head, but it was in Air Forces Monthly, about October/November 2010, news section.
Cheers
SintraChanging to Typhoon would damage military ties with France, which are way more important than saving a couple millions pr. airframe. The French are pretty much their defender against Iran with many thousand troops in the country. Don’t worry…
?!!!!
250 guys…
SintraFor most European countries, the Gripen is all they really need.
with that tiny airspace, and most of them having warm cozy neighbors.. especially now that the cold war is over..
bigger threats for them are their national debts, immigrants, roma, neonazis, Russian drug dealers, and football hooligans.
Dont dismiss what a football hooligan can do! Especialy one from FC Porto!
:diablo:
I´ll get me hat 😀
Sintra@Sintra
There are just 5 operators of T1s not 6. 😉
Right, Saudi Arabia 😮
SintraModifying the Typhoon T1 into a Typhoon T3 require almost the same work than upgrading a F16 A/B into a F 16 block 60. In fact such a modification proved to be so unsuitable that the RAF would rather get rid of perfectly good aircrafts rather than pay to upgrade them.
I have no problem with Austria needing only AtA capabilities, but if these planes were to be sold to a second hand buyer, they could almost never be reconfigured.
.
I would love to know how you´ve got to the conclusion that to upgrade a T1 (what block?) to a T3 would be in the same category of work of an upgrade of a Viper A/B to a block 60, an aircraft who increased its clean almost three tons, who got a new engine, an AESA radar and a completely newset of avionics!
Mind you the T3A (at least the first 88 of them) that are ordered will use the (almost) same CAPTOR, EJ200, etc, etc, that are in the T1´s …
Another thing, this:
“In fact such a modification proved to be so unsuitable that the RAF would rather get rid of perfectly good aircrafts rather than pay to upgrade them.”
There are six operators of Typhoon T1´s, one of those operators states that it might get rid of the first batch because they dont want to pay the upgrades, the other five will maintain those aircrafts. That particular operator has a recent history of slashing enormous quantities of fast jets, some of them almost brand new (the last batches of Tornado FMk3) and destroying entire core capabilities (naval fast jet operations, STVOL, etc).
Now tell me, the problem is with the platform or with the operator?
RAF has a problem… Lack of money…
Cheers 🙂
Sintra@Hotdog
That particular picture is a photoshop. It shows a BAE Replica style aircraft at the Qinetiq facility in Boscombe Down, when the actual BAE Replica had the work done at BAE in Warton, Lancashire! There is only one known picture of BAE Replica, upside down in a hangar, in quite low resolution from the New Scientist magazine.
AFAIK, the photo is true, and the pole model is still at Warton where the photo was taken, right outside of the retractable hangar.
But this his from reading, never been there myself… 🙁
SintraYou will have different countries operating different standards with different capabilities, and I doubt Austria will ever see their Typhoons dropping bombs…
:confused:
1º And me thinking that diferent standards being used in diferent countries with diferent capabilities was actually an advantage!
Dont tell to no one (its a secret) but the capabilities of the Portuguese MLU Tape 4 Vipers are diferent from the UAE Block 60´s Desert Falcons (shhhh its a secret)
2º Austria never wanted to drop bombs… It was not in the Austrian RFP, it wasnt evaluated and they dont want to pay for the ability to drop bombs… Oh wait, not paying for a capabilty that you dont want might be an advantage?! 😀
Chill out, those two arguments are not particulary well thought out.
Cheers 🙂
SintraIf UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Oman and Quatar ends up with the Eurofighter, while the Europeans cut their orders in half, does a name change makes sence?
Not to mention: possible production lines in India and Brazil
What should we call the bird?
“Idonbelieveitsoldsowellfighter”…
or in alternative
“Lewispagewasrightfighter”
🙂
I´ll get me hat
Sintrawell…
http://www.ruaviation.com/news/2011/4/22/273/
pehaps it is not but the article says the opposition
Do you believe in a Russian news article based on a “Brasilian MIC contact”?!
Or two Brasilian Defence ministers, the Comander in chief of the Brasilian Air Force and several high ranking FAB officers?
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