What? Are you saying the J-10 weighs more than the early J-8I, even though the latter plane is much longer, has two engines, has little to no composites, uses an older form of aluminum alloy and has a greater wingspan? AFM and the Sinodefence website now reporting 8300kg which I think is reasonable.

I have never seen any proof or claim that the MTOW can reach nearly 25,000kg.

The original 9700kg something weight was something that was spec’ed for the J-9 project.

Crobato

The J-8I doesn´t do 9g´s, and it´s six underwing pylon´s carry only a small fraction of the weight that something like a Viper or a J-10 can carry.

Cheers 🙂

J-10 is suppose to be around 7000 to 8000 kg (closer to 7000) and according to an article, actually ended up 27 kg under the required weight. In a typical configuration, it carries 2 PL-8 + 2 PL-12 + 3 EFT or 2 PL-8 + 4 PL-12 + 1 EFT, so no where near the outrageous weight that you claim. It’s often believed to be around 11 to 12 tonne in A2A configuration.

One single word, IMPOSSIBLE.

That´s the weight of a Mirage 2000C and almost matches the Saab Gripen C. The two european fighter´s are WAY smaller.

There is one scenario for a conventional armed Russian fleet. And that is a result from offensive Russian quest for sub-ocean ressource fields. Any disputed claims (like in the Artic Ocean, or maybe in the North Pacific) could be heavily undergirded by conventional naval forces. There is that convential – nuclear threshold in the use of force to protect oceanic ressources. To what level would NATO be willing to defend Norway’s and Denmark’s and Canada’s claims against an obstinate Russian opposition?

Btw, there are plans for up to six new large Russian carriers. Whatever the chances for realization are, and whatever their role would be (OTHT assets platform?), it shows that Russian future naval strategy is not only seen as carried by the subforces.

That´s a slightly more realistic scenario (but just so) than a permanent Iranian naval base in the Azores Islands (right in the midle of the North Atlantic Ocean) 😀

Cheers 😉

As I said No one has proven Venik’s pages to be lies, sure he (may) have some incorrect thing in his site here and there, but overall he’s on point, all you people can do is just RANT about how he’s not credible, with no “source” proving the majority of his posts are not true, if he was an American and was writting about Russia you’d take his posts as the truth.

Obviously you´ve never seen one of my text´s (they´re in Portuguese, so it´s quite normal) “klubing” that icon of “independent analysis” called Harold C. Hutchison (or the entire Strategy Page), he´s American by the way, or even better, the most famous Australian Telecomunications Engineer, mr Carlo “I want an F-111 with AESA” Koop…

Next time, if you want to defend someone´s credibility, choose one that didn´t make a fool of himself by claiming that the USAF had lost several B2´s over Servia.

If you want to back up something about Russian “flying” Hardware, try to quote someone like Yefin Gordon, or Pyotr Butowski, or Mikhail Pogosyan…

What Swiss nationals fail to stress in their posts is that the only thing that has taken place so far is a request by the Swiss MoD. They are plenty in parliament and then in the population (don’t forget that a referendum can be lodged against the purchase of such military equipment) who wonder why an air force fleet of cold war level should be maintained.

Switzerland certainly needs to police its skies but it is under no threat of foreign military invasion at this stage and for the foreseeable future. So the need to have a fleet dedicated to ground attack and recon mission hardly makes sense (and I will certainly be one asking those questions and casting my vote accordingly).

So, to make this simple, even though the military establishment is keen to see its F-5 replaced, you can not take this for granted. At least not for as many planes that the air force would like.

Dont worry…
With that kind of budget (2 Billion US$ for the fighters and the trainers) it´s quite obvious that the Swiss Air Force isn´t expecting more than a handfull of combat aircraft.

You are comparing 25 year old AL-31F to newer EJ-200. 117S/AL-31FM has better TWR than EJ-200 with far less money used to develop it. Give same amount of of money to Saturn/Salyut like Eurojet consortium and you will get engine of 20 to 1 TWR. Similar is the case of avionics/semiconductors/software etc. Russians have simply more impact in these fields than rest of EU combined.

Sweet Jesus :rolleyes:

Better warn Rolls Royce… 😉

The Gripen visited my hometown a few years ago, and i can assure you, its loud as *¤#*
Infact, a recent study says that a investment of more than 1 bilion dollars in base modifications due to noise, if Norway select the Gripen.

Never been around a Gripen, so i don´t know about the Swedish jet, but i lived near a Viper Base (Monte Real) for two months and i´ve seen the “Esercito del Aire” Hornets a few times, and believe me, the Bug wins the decibel fight hands down.
But the loudest air display that i´ve witnessed was a “ferking” Luftwaffe “Tonka” on after burner in a low pass over a crowd. My head was filled with a strange BBZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ for a couple of days.

Cheers 🙂

I don’t think aurcov intended to underate the European systems, but he simply didn’t know about their capabilities.

Hm, if that´s the case, sorry aurcov, my English his in very poor shape… 🙁