xman
However , this far they never showed interest joining the FCAS FR/UK program.
Post 199 in this topic made by “Hallowene”, who is a French Aerospace/defense Journo
– Its been many times that Germany asked to join FCAS program
Cheers
In any case, the point wasn’t about what the design requirements of the Tornado should have been, its about what was finally delivered and its relevance to the modern battlefield. The so-called ‘Tornado-role’ hasn’t existed for a very long time. Most mid-to-large sized fighter jets should be able to perform the full gamut of combat operations from air superiority & strike to SEAD & ALCM-delivery.
Looking at the battlefields that the Western Airforces have flown since the operational debut of the Tornado we could make a case that BOTH the low flight deep interdiction mission and the ATA mission for wich the likes of American teen series were originaly conceived were pretty much missing. They both ended doing Recon and Bombing from midle/high altitudes.
Cheers
The only one which is a genuine problem (I don’t thing big PGM carriage is a problem for Typhoon) is the nuke role
Not particulary, both the AMI and the Luftwaffe have conducted studies in the past about the feasability of integrating the B61 on the Phoon, its entirely doable. Its a question of money and, right now, they are forking out the cash to integrate the B61-12 on the Tornado, so…
No, Tyhpoon can’t replace Tornado. No nuclear strike, no SEAD, heavy interdiction with GBU-10 questionable.
Both nuclear strike and SEAD/DEAD are easily fixed (actually i would say that the RAF Phoons with Spear III arguably have a capability for DEAD), on the “heavy interdiction” bit the only thing needed are CFT´s. IF (big if) the Luftwaffe were in a hurry to replace the Tornados (i dont think they are) and by some reason were not allowed to acquire the F-35A, another batch of Typhoon´s would be the obvious solution.
Upgrading the Tornado means nothing in the british context. Remember how long after being upgraded the Harriers were retired?
And the Jaguar (that was the first European aircraft with an HMD), and the Sea Harrier (L16 coupled with the AIM120) and the Tornado FMK3, and they´ve almost slashed the entire Typhoon T1 batch out of hand.
From the end of the Cold War till the SDSR 2015 the Brits were in an almost indecent haste to slash their sqn numbers at an even greater speed (!) than Germany or France.
I think he is talking about “CONTACT” program, phase 3 (air) starting next year. Much more advanced networking than any NATO standard.
And ESSOR european program, with a european waveform software.Albeit SCA compatible. Btw, theselected waveform will e candidate for STANAG NATO Wideband Waveform.
Cant be, he specificaly stated that the French Army and Navy were already using whatever he was thinking, and at least publicly they are using L11/16/22 and Rover.
By the way, i had the idea that ESSOR was entirely based on American protocols, am i wrong?
Cheers
Yes, might be something like that.
I think the 2030 date is intended to be read as retiring between 2025 and 2030.
Nope, from Panavia itself:
This continuous modernisation programme will allow the Luftwaffe to maintain its Tornado fleet in service until at least 2035.
http://www.panavia.de/aircraft/ongoing-development/gaf/
They should be approximately 40 years old at the time; inducted 1981-87 for the IDS (64 in-service), 1985-91 for the ECR (29 in-service). I suppose you could flog them further but really, at that point, retiring them without replacement would probably be a more merciful solution.
They would be slightly younger than the USAF F-15C/D´s that will (almost certainly) be retired by the late 2030´s.
https://sputniknews.com/russia/20170…lane-computer/
Russia’s fifth-generation fighter jet, formerly known as the Prospective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation (PAK FA), or Sukhoi T-50, has officially been named the Su-57. In an interview with Sputnik, aviation expert Viktor Pryadka said that the Su-57 is a computerized multifunctional complex capable of flying on its own.
“Each such plane becomes a computer center which is able to decide exactly what type of arms and ammo it needs for a specific combat mission. In the UAV mode, the plane can reach its target much faster with overloads of up to 15 G, while the maximum overload a pilot can endure does not exceed 10 G,” said Viktor Pryadka, the CEO of the Avintel Aviation Technologies Alliance.The T-50 can do 15 G in autonomous mode.
Who is “Viktor Pryadka” and who are “the Avintel Aviation Technologies Alliance”?
Never heard of them, and the only aerospace “Avintel” company that i could found is a French aerospace consulting company.
The chap is claiming that the SU-57 is a optionaly manned combat UCAV… Serious doubts on that one.
The GAF meanwhile needs a replacement for its Tornado no later than 2025.
2030, or even 2040.
http://aviationweek.com/awin-only/germany-updating-tornados-last-until-2030
http://aviationweek.com/defense/industry-ponders-how-keep-tornado-service-until-2040
Cheers
The Wikipedia articles on the German Air Force and fighter wings 33 and 51 contradict this. There are is a recon Tornado in wing 51, more Tornados than you state in wing 33, and 15 Tornados used for training in the US.
Tactical Air Force Wing 33 Büchel Air Base, flying 42x Panavia Tornado IDS
Tactical Air Force Wing 51 “Immelmann” Schleswig Air Base, flying 28x Panavia Tornado ECR
Flight Training Center of the Air Force, Holloman AFB, flying 15x Panavia Tornado IDShttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Air_Force
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taktis…ngeschwader_33
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taktis…ngeschwader_51
You are entirely correct. Me writing before coffee (and without checking data)… Thanks for the correction.
Has there been the slightest communication or action or any signs leading one to believe that the Germans see the Rafale “as a valid alternative for Tornado replacement”?
Absolutely not
Here is a German language article mentioning the maintenance issues with German Tornadoes. Quoting Google Translate:
http://www.zeit.de/politik/2015-12/bundeswehr-tornados-maengel
Thats the problem with generalistic newspapers, those numbers are actually pretty good.
Taking into acount that there’s only one single Luftwaffe tactical wing equiped with Tornado’s, having between 29 and 38 airframes operational at any given time it means an excelent operational capability for the 33 TFW. A Luftwaffe TFW usually field around 35 airframes.
In my opinion , Germany and Airbus priorities are less about the airframe itself than gaining access to the French experience with European standard communication and network centric capability and systems which they deployed for their Ground and sea forces and which they are about to deploy via Rafale standard F4 for Air forces as well. A key enabler toward collaborative asset deployment and the potential backbone for a European defense system .
“European standard communication and network centric capability”?
Both the French Navy and Army use NATO standards, protocols and systems, or in other words, they use L16, L22, Rover and so on, American standards, protocols and systems.
bring_it_on – The ‘AEGIS’ system that the ‘USN’ are going to integrate with the ‘F-35’, has there been any conformation 100% that the ‘Russian24’s’ actually compromised the system when they did that low fly by in the black sea a while back as they claimed ?
No, it was an entirely silly claim.