Jeez guys you still haven’t learned anything after all these years:

1) JF-17 (I have seen definitive YouTube videos that prove that it can shoot down an MKI. 1 JF-17=3 MKI + 1 Mig-29)

I tell you guys…..you really need to do your homework. Here is a link (if its not already posted). How can you even ask for more proof?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gD1gDfqL4

2) Habib Sitara- (yes there is a flying version and yes its better than the F-22)

That JF-17 thing, is it any good? LoL, if it can take out a mig-29, and not one but 3 su-30mki, seems better than any of those very expensive european types. Wounder why it isnt securing deals all over the place.:confused:

I belive the Rafale is currently the best “omni” role aircraft out there. After replacing the dare I say, slightly old radar, the F-16 (except e/f), f-18, f-15, mirage 2000 are all poorer than the rafale in one way and another. It is the overall best of em all, in my opinion, and that is coming from the biggest, most fanatical, English Typhoon lover:o

Does the rafale have the ability to fire scalp, or ASMP yet?

Hopefully the typhoon will catch up with the rafale soon, the margin is closing all the time.;)

Oh and also when I go to farnborough I would love to se a Rafale flying, but now I know why they dont show up.:(

When people comment on the rafales range being better than typhoon, how much is it by?

Also in what ways are the low level ride better in a rafale rather than typhoon. Surely the typhoon would have inherited alot of that electronic wizardry from the best low level strike aircraft in the world. a.k.a Tornado.

I think exactly the opposite plane man!:D

little difference in AtA between the two types but a significant gap in the AtG arena in favor of the rafale.

concerning manoevrability both should be very close. I would give an edge on supersonic regime for the typhoon, but an edge for the rafale at slow speed. (it is a navalized aircraft with slower approach speeds) In transonic regime it should be quite even. In fact both are 9G fighters and the diffrence should be in pilots ability to withstand such accelerations.

How can you use wild statements such as “an edge”. Ignoring pilot ability;
a navaized fighter with lower speeds, give or take 30 knots in landing speed, compared to fighter does not make it any more manouverable/agile. In fact in order to allow lower flight speeds, these type of fighters generally produce more drag and are heavier than their counterparts, hampering flight performance (F-18e/f, su-33, mig-29 (naval))!BTW the typhoon could easly become navalised, RAF may have them in the future if the JSF ******s up. In the slow flight regime having superior thrust to weight ratio is more important than having a extremely small gap in minimum flight speed, being able to power through turns/climbs on raw energy/power; the typhoon here is definitly superior here.
The typhoon is definitly superior in the supersonic regime, it out performs the F-22 in alot of this flight regime, especially in instant turn rate perfomance, nevermind the rafale. The Rafale is good, but only comparable to the F-16 type aircraft in that regime.

In the BVR arena both aircraft rely on different tactics, rafale using to a greater extent passive indentification. Radar range is irrelevant since it tells the position of your aircraft and can gives a firing opportunity to your oponent. Since mica and aim 120 are offer roughly the same performances the outcome should depend on tactics, situation awarness and the way you can vectorise your missile. theese parameters are interdependent.

Radar range irrelavant 😀 😀 The eurofighters PIRATE can track 80nm, the rafales OSF is in the order of 40nm.

Both can SC with an edge for the typhoon on this arena. But in the real world SC is of very little utility. Even F22 pilots tell that they don’t need it to win an AtA engagements. In fact they try to remain airborn as long as possible enjoying a unique situation awarness. So they have the time to see the threat coming and when they decide to engage, they light the burners to accelerate quickly and finish the job.
SC was good during cold war scenario when you needed to scramble against enemmy fighters in a defensive stance. And this kind of performance as its cost. You loose combat persistence or load out capabilities. There is a lot of hype about it but it has little operational use.
Dassault did advertise its SC ability in fox three.

You are wrong again. There is not just an “egde”, rather that the aircraft can easily, consistently do it or not. The typhoon can, the Rafale cannot.;) SC plays its part, significantly in BVR, in missle range, coordination and energy depletion. There is a large article somewhere. I will find it for you and post it. Combat persistence is decreased yes, but not AtoA load out capabilites, the eurofighter can consistently cruise at mach 1.2 with full air to air weapons fit. But the definiton of an aircrafts ability to SC is very important, showing it is able to; demonstates the performance of the aircraft, resulting in when the typhoon, even when fully loaded combined with the specialized FCS, alows it to fly throught the whole performance envelope with very, very little affect.

hum, the configuration you are mentioning is a joke, since “the large drop tank” you are mentioning is in fact a small 1000 liters tank vs 2000l (the double!!) for the rafale, and furthemore in the real life there is no tank because there is the LDP on this station. So considering the drag and the two powerful EJ200 the range should be very bad!

It wont be a joke when the 2000 litrs tank is intergrated on tranche 2 aircraft.
The higher power outweighs alot of the drag associated with the load without using more fuel (goin back to SC power being beneficail in other areas). The pod doesnt have to be located there. Sacrifising a 1000 lb bomb will do. Being a powerful EJ200 engine doesnt mean it will eat more fuel:D

with six LGB the rafale can carry 3*2000=6000 liters (external) vs 0 external for the typhoon!!
In fact this configuration was for the show and it has no operational value.
It is also very compeling with storm shadows 6000 liters vs 1000 liters!! (it is six time more!!)

I am sure twin bomb racks will be intergrated onto the typhoon, are you sure 6 LGB with 3 2000L tanks:confused:
It does not have opperational value, never said it did, but it was not only desgined to show the bomb truck ability, but more the performance and care free handeling when the typhoon is loaded with a masive load. I can assure you it was spectacular I watched it on the Tuesday in the Farnbrugh week, there was not much difference between that and the clean display.

Check this video, there is a clip of it, after a beautifully done Rafale display:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArkQ_Dcc2Us

but diffrences don’t stop with loadout configurations…

The RBE2 can work simultaneously in ATG and ATA which is impossible for the mechanical CAPTOR. Doing so greatly increase rafale survivability in AtG missions, since you can make ground following (you are much more difficult to detect) and engaging air threat in the same time. This ability gives you a tactical edge.
In the same situation the typhoon would almost automatically abort the mission.

No, it is possible, it is that good a radar. Yes but when performing both the tasks at once, I cannot help belive a true, dedicated interceptor/AtoA fighter such as su-35 would be better than a jack of all trades rafale, even if the rfale is very, very good there. Ha, yer sure it would automatically abort:rolleyes:

plus manoevring at 9 with a full AtG load is a lie.

Call it a play on the truth. Being able to pull 7.8 G with the load is real, after a nice little chat with Mr. Bowman in my fathers friend’s:D smiths avaition company VIP area.

BTW I wonder what a two seat ground attack Mirage 4000D would look like…

Cannot see why it would be bad, maybe low level ride would be hampered, however the small canards could be used to corrrect this like in the B1

I have found a brilliant video on youtube. After the rafale bit it shows a eurofighter typhoon demo at farnborough fully loaded. Look at the sheer performance of that beast;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArkQ_Dcc2Us

6 1000lb LGB
4 amraam
2 asraam
1 tank

wow

Not really impressive.

The fact is that you believe what may be propaganda.
Typhoon may have been the only one to supercruise exactly how Sings wanted (and i don’t know about this being true or not). But about the F-16s, you don’t know what Rafale did (you don’t know what F-15 achieved too), as the Dassault man I spoke to had no idea of what eurofighter could have demonstrated.

I think nearly the opposite.
F-22 is the first all around stealth fighter, with the first in-service AESA radar, and first occidental in-service TVC.
By itself, and knowing the USA knowledge, everyone knows how incredible this machine must be, and it’s a great airplace by its nature, which in itself justifies why Hollywood love it so much.

Typhoon had to survive against fierce criticizm in early 90s, and since at least 1994, i read every where that it’s the second best after F-22 (and in 1994, it was far from being demonstrated). This was pushed in a lot of publications, magazines (even and mainly after Singapore, while to me, it’s not justified).

With the decreased orders for the F-22, and lobbies against it, USAF has just the right to defend its fighter, nonotheless, i think that it’s very different to what happens with the Eurofighter (i’m not saying it’s never justified).

Taking out two of the so called “worlds best fighter aircraft” aint half bad in a 15% opperational capability, two seat training aircraft, when two f-15 attacked it.

In singapore the typhoon was the ONLY one to kill 3 F-16s therefore you know the rafale did not; maybe two, maybe one:dev2:

When you say “supercruise how the sings wanted”, do you mean demonstrated supercruise, mach 1.2 with a full air to air configured aircraft is “surprisingly” what they wanted. Not a now and again, if the weathert is right, supercrusing rafale.

Regarding a performance note demonstrated at singapore was a typhoon vertical climb from takeoff to a very high alttiude, maybe 40k ft plus. (need to chack for exact altitude) which apprantely really impressed the singapore airforce pilots.

Mean you this Picture?

Nope lol, but it shows the same thing basically. Raptors and typhoons together.

The picture (may have been two) was in the front couple of news pages of Air Forces Monthly, showing 2 OCU RAF eurofighters parked up.

Below is a link about the event.

http://www.eurofighter.com/news/article221.asp

Its down the page.

Maybe the Eurofighter and Raptor had a play then lol.