Just trying to change the topic slightly. A question on the RAF eurofighter solo display, any chance of it next year using a block 5 aircraft with full Flight Control Software?

Friends and acquaintances.It doesnt matter if you question whether I have them or not,because they wont change anything.:)

Lol, im not interested in that 😮 . What I meant was can you direct me too any good sources from the IAF point of view.

You can believe all you want to.And I will believe whatever information I recieve from IAF sources…and that says that there is nothing to suggest that the Typhoons can blow off the MKIs.

TVC..quite useful in WVR and even in BVRs.

Yes I will believe it. May I ask what IAF sources you used, not to question you have them, but for my own interest.:)

I know JPL. He, and folk like Colonel Moussez are to Rafale what Ned Frith and Charlie Chan were to Typhoon – official mouthpieces who state the party line – especially so at an event like Paris or Farnborough.

1) The Dutch evaluation was not technical – it was economic and industrial, which is how the then-unflown JSF won against Rafale and Typhoon (which came last, and on programme grounds, at that time, who’s surprised!).

2) There are a number of Korean sources. Apart from members of the Typhoon and Rafale and F-15 bid teams, a senior member of the Korean team spoke frankly about the evaluation at an SETP (Society of Experimental Test Pilots) event after the evaluation. British, French and US TPs have reported what he said. Some journos have even spoken to him direct! Before him, I had only spoken to Boeing and Dassault people (I never found any of the EF Korean campaign team willing to talk) and had always understood that Typhoon was rejected, pretty well out of hand, because at that time, there seemed no chance that the aircraft could meet the requirement or the timescale. I’d come to understand that the F-15K and Rafale were pretty evenly matched – each having advantages and disadvantages, with Rafale marginally ahead overall. That’s not what the RoKAF, thought however, who placed Typhoon ahead on technical grounds, but who judged it too risky from a timescale point of view, and who reluctantly encouraged its rejection. But at the end of the day, the RoKAF and the Government were in agreement that the aircraft should be rejected.

3) It’s a very similar story in Singapore, though the RSAF blokes who have spoken out to me and other journos have been far more cautious about their anonymity. In Singapore, the Typhoon bid team put in what was described by a senior industry source as a ‘shambolic’ performance, angering the Singaporeans in the process. Though they later re-organised the bid team and brought in a marketing guru from the Hawk programme, the Singaporean MinDEF remained annoyed, and many believe that the way in which Typhoon was singled out for early rejection (rather than simply announcing the winner at the end of the process) was partially calculated as a punishment. The big difference with Korea was that the RSAF rated Typhoon as best on technical grounds, and pushed hard for its selection, accepting that some of the required capabilities would not be ready in the required timescale, and content to run the risk a minor slippage to delivery dates. But while the AF was happy to wait, MinDEF was not, for strategic and budgetary reasons. The rushed (long delayed and rushed-at-the-last-minute) push for a Tranche 2 production contract was intended to reassure the Singaporeans, but the failure to sign the Tranche 2 capabilities contracts (EOC>FCP) had the opposite effect.

JPL’s characterisation of what CAS said about Typhoon runs counter to what has been published. Torpy was polite about Rafale, and praised some aspects of the aircraft, but he did not rate it above Typhoon, and when asked about this was quite clear that while Rafale was an ‘excellent aircraft’ he was happy that Typhoon was superior, and better for UK requirements.

I’ve personally spoken to a number of pilots who’ve flown Rafale, and all acknowledge that it’s a bloody good aeroplane. I haven’t met anyone who doesn’t place Rafale ahead of the US teen series (with the exception of the latest F-15 variants, which do have some enthusiastic supporters). But of those who have flown both Rafale and Typhoon I have found plenty of people who liked particular elements of Rafale, but I have yet to find a single person who preferred Rafale overall.

That’s not to say there aren’t such people – find a pilot whose only experience is the M2K and there’s a chance that he might prefer Rafale overall. I almost spoke to a Greek M2K driver who I thought had flown Rafale and Typhoon, but the bug.ger pretended he couldn’t speak English and wouldn’t discuss it…..

I agree in Korea it was the typhoon that was rated superior, not too sure but was this the event where it took out 3 f-16’s and was the only one to demonstrate “supercruise” capability? Howerer I have read from numerous sources it was Axed due to unconfirmed/unreliable time scales for the rquired capability

Just a quick point to all the rafale fans out there. Honestly, I am much more likened towards the typhoon and would like to know how the rafale is superior to the typhoon in the a2g role/ strike role. I have heard of superior range and payload, but how does the aircraft handle when loaded out with this weapons set, as well as the “Care Free handelling” of the typhoon? I am making this point as I am yet to see ANY aircraft demonstate the raw power and agility when loaded with full air to ground/strike ordinance as the typhoon did at farnborough last year.

I suppose the root of the question is does the rafale still have its flight preformance close to the typhoon when loaded?, or does it significantly “drop off”, so to speak.