Sorry if this has been raised before (nearly 300 posts is a lot to read through…) but, as usual, the Soviets provided some of these planes with some intereting gun armament.
The MiG-31 carries the GSh-6-23, a six-barrel rotary comparable with the US M61 only firing 23mm ammunition at no less than 9,000 rpm. However, it only carries enough ammo for a very short burst. It is apparently intended for use against UAVs and cruise missiles.
The MiG-23 carries the classic twin-barrel GSh-23, very small and light but firing at 3,000+ rpm.
The MiG-27 went to the other extreme with the GSh-6-30, a six-barrel rotary firing powerful 30×165 ammo. It’s almost as powerful as the GAU-8/A, and fires at around 5,000 rpm, but is more like the size and weight of the 25mm GAU-12/U in the AV-8B.
Guns may not be so important in most combat situations, but the Russians certainly make some interesting ones!
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion
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Some comments on the gun armament of the two planes:
The four M39 revolver cannon of the F100 fired a total of 108 rounds per second (slightly better than one M61) for a total weight of fire of 10.9 kg per second. Add in the effect of the HE on board and you have a ‘damage factor’ score of 2,376 points.
The three NR-30 of the MiG-19 fired only 45 rps, but each shell weighed around 400g giving a total throw weight of 18 kg. Factor in the HE and you have a damage score of 3,105 points. So the MiG-19 hits harder, and further, but less often. Overall, more effective – but the MiG didn’t carry much ammo.
There is an analysis of the effectiveness of common postwar fighter gun armament in one of the appendices to ‘Flying Guns – the Modern Era: Development of Aircraft Guns, Ammunition and Installations since 1945’ by Emmanuel Gustin and myself.
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I suspect that the RAf was unenthusiastic about the Henley because (unlike the Battle) its dive-bombing role tied it pretty firmly to the support of army operations – anaethema to the Trenchard generation. It took several years for a generally reluctant RAF to relearn the lessons of army close support which it mastered in WW1.
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I’ve put a new article on my website describing, illustrating and providing data about all of the anti-tank rifle ammunition which saw service from WW1 to WW2, plus some experimentals (scroll down the title page to the ‘Army’ section).
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum
well, how often do ship-born helos go around troting AShMs?
if u consider the kind of scenario i described, these helos are far more likely to be on ASW duty with torps and depth charges instead of AShMs.
Shipborne helos these days tend to be multipurpose, not just dedicated anti-sub. All of the RN’s Lynx helos have been able to use Sea Skua for over 20 years, the USN’s helos carry Pinguin IIRC, the French AS-15 (?? I’m going on memory here) is in international service and so on. All relatively small anti-ship missiles specifically designed to knock out FACs and other small warships. It’s one of the helo’s primary tasks.
most current navies prefer larger boats because of the economic advanatges of peacetime ops. but i am considering which vessels i would have if i was a naval commander about to go off to a war – which i really what weapons systems should be about, all the recent trend of efficiency and peacetime ability is just something to keep the pilotitions happy with. if it was a war, it would all not matter.
I’d be willing to bet that the last weapon that any RN frigate commander would want to give up, in war or peace, would be the helo. In warfare, the key to victory is information; knowing what’s going on. Without a helo, the ship is partially blinded.
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Which stealth features do in-service FACs possess? I believe the Swedes or Norwegians are working on stealth FACs and introducing them to service, but the rest are as cluuttered with radar-reflecting devices as any other ships.
There is a history of FACs v. anti-ship missiles, and it is all bad news for the FACs. The RN’s helo-launched Sea Skuas have an impressive strike rate against them, and that technology is over 20 years old. There is no reason to suppose that they make difficult targets for larger ASMs either: they can’t manoeuvre fast enough to avoid them. At the moment, helos are far less vulnerable to FACs than FACs are to helos.
What FACs need isn’t a large SAM system but a lightweight point-defence anti-missile system (whether gun or missile based). However, that is always likely to be less effective than the same system on board a larger vessel, partly because of the lower radar height giving less warning, partly because of greater boat movement in any kind of sea.
Why would submarines bother to attack FACs (unless they were posing a threat to friendly vessels)? The FACs can’t hurt the subs, so the subs would just ignore them.
Their small size and lack of a helo makes FACs considerably less versatile and useful than a corvette, hence they represent worse value for money. There may be some circumstances in which a FAC is a better choice than a corvette, but they would be the exception rather than the rule.
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The record of FPBs has not been good in recent conflicts. The Iraqi ones proved to be merely tasty targets for the Lynx helos in 1991, and against fixed-wing planes they have proved to be sitting ducks.
A helo is probably the most useful piece of kit a modern warship can carry, so a helo-capable corvette has got to be far more valuable, in the vast majority of circumstances, than a pair of FPBs with similar armament.
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See the ammo photo gallery on my site. With a couple of exceptions, the photos are all of rounds in my collection. If you look at some of the articles on my site on aircraft armament, you’ll also find comparative photos of the ammo attached.
Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and Discussion forum
A-10 armor weight 680 kg./Su-39 armor 1115 kg.
I think it is difficult to determine comparative armour weights, as in the A-10 at least there is no distinction between some of the armour and the basic structure of the aircraft – the cockpit is a titanium ‘bathtub’.
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Well, as far as the guns are concerned there isn’t much of a comparison: they both have 30mm cannon but the A-10 uses the seven-barrel GAU-8/A firing rather more powerful ammo than the Su-25’s two-barrel GSh-30 and at a slightly higher rate. The US plane also has far more ammo capacity.
More generally, the Su-25 is a bit more compact and agile, with better acceleration which helps it to get it away form the danger zone after an attack. However, it doesn’t carry the same warload and is probably not as well protected.
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