your “link” is just to some forum post. Nothing really official about that. TR1 could come in writing something and then claim it was written by Artem Mikoyan yet how can you prove that what he wrote really did come from Mikoyan or not?

your A-7 analogy is faulty because it was designed from the start to use Allison engines. Rolls-royce came afterwards. JF-17 and J-10 are using Russian engines from the start.. and for the JF-17 got help from MiG in the mid-1990s
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/1995/06/21/25623/mikoyan-joins-chengdu-on-fighter.html

1). Mr Gu’s Memoir is published in China, that link was just excerpts taking out the pages. If you want some insight into mid-80s to mid 90s chinese aviation, his Memoir is a must read. So that question is settled.

2) “JF-17 and J-10 are using Russian engines from the start..”
if you would have had some proper readings in history of chinese aviation… judging by the way you comment you think you know enough… you would know that J-10 project, which was started in early 80s. was first intended to used their WP-15 Turbojet, which later switched to WS-10, (which based on an decidedly un-russian core), which then after the collapse of soviet union in early 90s, and delay in WS-10, switched to AL-31. Tell me, why would CAC plan to use a Soviet Union Engine source in early mid-80s , when Soviet union was still alive and kickin’ and definitely not selling any hardware to china!
So logic has it, that either CAC is dumb and lucky, or you just don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Its really a easy one to decide.

3) What did the article of yours show? Mig did some consulting work on FC-1 early 90s. Ok.
so did Grumman in mid-late 80s.

So by your logic Grumman had strong influence on J-20 too? COme Freakin’ On!

Interesting. This is Chengdu’s early stealth concept.. a proto J-20 if you will..

does it not look similar?

FYI this is the “phantom” twin engine heavy J-10 concept.

This thing has more to do with inspiration from Dassault’s Mirage 4000
then anything else.

Back in the mid 90s Dassault was Chengdu Aircraft Design Insitute’s hero. back then they openly talked about aspire to be “China’s Dassault”.

btw did you know also that J-10’s chief test pilot and one of china’s first generation of flight-by-wire test pilots flew on Calspan’s learjet and was part of Gripen’s PIO evaluations done in mid 90s?

also in my hand is a book written by the chief flight test engineer of J-10 who is now the chief engineer at china flight test establishment. pretty awesome book, he openly talked about technical exchanges he had with europeans and americans…

If one want to talk about influence, then I would say back then the whole CAC establishment prob had more influence from western europe then Mig. Did Mig Help? yes, but prob more in back ground technical solutions rather than the overall design. in some of these literature they talked about things such as Tsagi and Mig give them some very nice software packages for estimating loads etc etc.

If we want to take this thread up a notch and talk about these detailed technical stuff, then I am very happy to do so, but once again these naive judgment calls from staring at pictures all day? no. not interesting.

btw, I find you are sometimes naive, too simple. pretty funny the way you try to make these connections and barking up the wrong tree…with such little info to go on.

Am I patronizing? Oh Yeah 😉

Blue!

Please watch the P 8-I videos India is gettin dispensers and all that. And these guys making decisions are not amateurs like yourself.

Good, on dispensers.
still no BAMS though.
btw, If you think I am an amateur it is your perogative. 😎

As for the integration its already done and it makes little sense to do it all in house for such a small number of airframes. Do you think an aircraft or an airforce is not potent because the equipment is not integrated ormade in the home country.

Those Ships/Subs will be done for whether its American weapons or Indian 😉

Not if your operational security is in doubt.

You are apparently Jealous because …

That is what you think. and I must note here that you went onto this pretty childish attack first.

frog in a well don’t know how big the sky is; 😀

China does not have something of the same class and cannot buy it from anywhere because of restrictions and because Russian don’t have anything similar.

PLA made a choice and I think it has some rational basis for it. procurement is never about I must have what you have, its about equipment to fit your needs. talking about amatures… :rolleyes:

haha 🙂 Envious are we ?

why would I be envious of some thing that I think is essentially a waste of money.

and I am serious here,
P-8 is intended to work with BAMS, that was always the original intent.
BAMS aspect is taking away the persistence survallence part from P-8, which is kind absurd because P-8’s platform is not exactly ideal for low altitude ASW work either. If any of you have flown in a 737-800 in a low speed low altitude turbulence you would know what i mean. hence the gadgetary designed to dispense torpedos and sonarbuoys. Will IN buy BAMs and dispensers? haven’t heard.

now If I am given the choice, I would use it to buy the maritime survallence radar and EW equipment and do my own installations on some low hour 2nd hand freighter, given the industrial base that we have in India. may be I can get more airframes and strength out of that. ( a low hour 737 LR cost what, 60 mil on the 2nd hand market, and no worries on somebody to bug you because everything is done inhouse?) but no… instead you got to send the comm gear etc etc for Boeing to “install/integrate”…
so every time one of those P-8I took off, some body some where half way across the world would know exactly where its at and what its doing, and may be tip off PakN if it strayed too close. 😉

It’s still kind of in the air what engines J-20 are using at the moment.

And WS-15 may be a bit larger than Al-31/WS-10. It looks like the J-20s rear end is designed to suit a larger engine, but that could be to make space for TVC.
If WS-15 is a similar size though, we could very well see future J-10 variants fitted with it if PLAAF wants to go that way.

WS-10 has a slightly larger diameter than AL-31 but still in same neighborhood.
WS-15 is about 10% bigger in diameter. and slightly longer than WS-10. minus the afterburner.
about the same class as F119/120.

CAC is thinking a redesigned stealth J-10 with a single WS-15.

Err SSNs maybe, but I don’t think SSKs have the endurance to operate at that kind of distances.

There are constant rumours about a more dedicated MPA based off Y-8 (GX6?), when it comes out is anyone’s guess. PLA definitely needs a fixed wing ASW aircraft, as much as they needed AEW&C early last decade. It’s strange, they have the technology to build a decent MPA but have yet to go beyond the current Y-8X and SH-5. The only reason I can imagine for this is due to production limitations and the perceivecd importance in using Y-8s for other platforms before MPA…

Maybe later this decade. P-8 is definitely a nice looking aircraft.

PLA SSKs is not and will not operating in Indian oceans for the foreseenable future. This “PLAN SSK in Indian ocean threat thing” is an entirely imagined threat that is neither factual nor logical. and only serves as a figleaf for the boondoggle known as the Indian naval expansion. IMHO.

now
onto MPA for PLAN.
Their Y-8 Special Mission series (Gao Xing) has been concentrating on Electronic surveillance and attack and battle field management. obviously PLAN/PLAAF think those are a higher priority than big ocean ASW. closer to china where most of their SSKs operate its either shallow ocean or choke point defense. not the best area for asw mpa s to operate.

also I think they think it is pretty useless for MPAs to go out when you can’t control air superiority. they would just be fodders. so the focus has been on AWACs and electronic warfare.

btw there is a ASW focused MPA in the Y-8 Gao Xing series, it is hasn’t been shown/caught/flew openly yet. purportedly has refuel boom and a very good range.

Saab’s Official Brief To Indian Navy On Sea Gripen

Saab made this presentation to the Indian Navy on September 6 in Goa during the INS Hansa golden jubilee event. This is exclusive to Livefist.

As its exclusive not posting the slides. Let him get some hits :diablo:

Good stuff.

Recently talked to a Saab technical guy who was working on NG, at a conference. can’t tell you which one 😉

When I brought up the Sea Grippen and how it can have a good small carrier market, he smiled at me and said it is more of marketing people’s work right now than technical people’s concerns. Being a technical person myself I understood what he meant. 😉

just letting you guys know some details down in the bowels of these things.