watch the debate for a while,
jumping in to make a point on pure technical point
typically for fighters AOA control law is active at all mach upto max dive speed, what a well designed AOA command/limiter law gives you is the ability to take the aircraft to the edge and squeeze every ounce of lift with out loosing control.
what this give to the pilot is the confidence to push very close to the edge and know that the system would protect you against it.
what it also gives you is to relax some of the normal margins you have while designing airframe. i.e. relax some wing twist.
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But,
FCS is not a cure all.
it is only going to add that one layer of flexibility in your design space that can help you to manage some very conflicting requirements otherwise has to be in the traditional tradoffs.
FCS still has to live under the design space provided by basic airframe layout.
i.e. higher wingloading would mean at lower speed your G is capped. vs a lower wingloading.
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Also on the sustained g.
aircraft like these all have speed stability, what is that mean.
that means g would bleed off means you can’t sustain High Gs. for the longer term, and for longer term your speed comes down to some point.
realistically you can only sustain about 2-3 gs.
The high g-s are pretty much transient phenomenom.
this is where the big engine helps.
Normally u can find IFF probes in a row or rows on the Russians’ phased array radar. But western AESA intergrates IFF into the planetary array.
not true.
check Grifo or AGP-66 or AGP-70.
Well those pictures put paid to any idea that they might be fitting a catapult to Varyag. They have porta-cabins exactly where they would have to put a trench for a waist catapult. .
Yeah but what’s underneath those porta-cabins!:diablo:
Thanks for posting …
In line with thee latest unveilings – and not only the J-20 – I’m eager what’s next ?? The Y-20, a new helicopter or “simply” the new naval AEW.
Deino
PS: found that nicely fitting to all these fritics, sceptics … :diablo:
Y-20 would the “it” to watch.
Almost no coverage at all and it is an airplane that is in china’s weakest area… large transports.
suppose to be > Il-76MD and slightly under C-17.
Its not who taught them that matters but what they do for themselves. A nobel winning engineer can teach hundreds and thousands of students over his career. There is no guarantee that any one of them will also win a nobel prize. OTOH, there is nothing stopping someone from winning a nobel prize just because he was not taught by someone who won one before.
.
How do you think people learn in Aviation industry?
working under/with experienced people.
don;t ever underestimate the importance of right leadership in this industry.
Sopwith Camel . . .
relatively speaking and contemporaries!
Aircraft are designed by people not countries you know. The people who designed the great soviet fighters of old are no long around. The current crop of Russian designers have done nothing but come up with endless mods and re-hashes of existing designs before the PAKFA.
The current generation of Chinese designers working on the J20 have the J10 and JF17 under their belts. Both of which showed far greater ingenuity and innovation.
Not really,
current crop of Russian Engineers are led by men worked under the tutelage of the greats.
If you look at the current top people in CHina, what was their experience before JF-17 and J-10?
J-10 was really a learning series that built the foundation for 611.
btw, both 611 and 601 has quite a bit of Russian engineers on its payroll.
J-15 clearly with WS-10A … and in mind of two others each with AL-31F I would say this is a production bird !
tell me why would this be WS-10A?
shiny petals?
actually its the opposite
its a “mines is shorter than yours” debate as some people feel uncomfortable with the large size of the J-20 and claims that because of it, its more of a bomber.in an ideal world people want their fighter jets to have the long range radar and flight radius of a large fighter, in a profile of a smaller air frame… in the end they get compromises.. ala Typhoid and Rafale.
yeah this is really a silly debate.
technical specification really is derived ultimately from operational requirements.
If you want long range, 2 pilots, Mach-2.3, and shoot missiles you will get F-4 Phantom II,
If you want to dog fight at low speed you will get a Mig-17.
f22’s bay is perhaps 3,9 meters long, but certainly not as wide. width is around 1,9 to 2 meters. Around 95 cm per bay. That much is evident from the images.
pl12 in its current form has a wingspan of 67 cm, as said, but just like amraam in f22 it isnt stacked inside the bay like that. what matters is fin box cross section width. That width is some 48 centimetres.
We dont know if j20 has a single continuous bay or two bays like the f22.
It could fit 2 per small bay or 5 in a large bay.
BUT. All that is quite unimportant as j20 is likely to carry a different version of pl12.
first aim120a was delivered to usaf in 1988 (didnt reach ioc till later) and first c model was delivered in 1996. That is eight years. pl12 was seen in service with plaaf in 2005 and j20 is likely to enter service no earlier than 2018. If amrram managed to shorten the finspan from 63 cm to 44 cm, pl12 will in double the time period, certainly manage to do something similar. So we wont be looking at 67 cm wingspan but something like 46 cm wingspan. And then the fin box width wont be 48 cm but 33 cm. And then we’re certain to see 3 such missiles per bay, if there are two bays, or perhaps as much as 8 such missiles if it is a single bay.
That PL-12C version (see above pictures and charts) is the shortened fin version.
The more I see the J-20 the more it reminds me of several other aircraft. It has a tail reminiscent of a McDonnell-Douglas design, the canards of the Rafale, the nose of the Raptor, the engine size of the Foxhound, the intake bumps of the JF-17, and the wing form of the J-10. It’s a ‘Frankenjet’.
…and I might add the canards concept is clearly borrowed from the Wright Flyer.
Rafale recovers at 15~16 degree AOA, pilot barely able to see the meatball
that’s what a delta wing get you.
I don’t care how long it is. I want to know how much that thing weighs!!
well, you just have to carry a big scale and walk into CAC.
I don’t know why everybody came back to the length argument:confused:
My estimation from the very begining is between 20 to 21m.
its because people think a “long” airplanes is suck at turning thus is a striker and a ” stuby and shorter” airplane is a good dog fighter.
hehhhh….. there is a place for eye-ball engineering in aerospace, but not as much as one think.
You know there is a kelly Johnson story: when he was reviewing a top view of a airplane design. he stared at the top view and said, the rudder is too small 😀
just for fun. 😀
oh no those Chinos are cloning f-16s!
😉
relax it is just some foreign technology analysis work.