i.e.reply in blue
@ i.e.
To be fair the AShBM isn’t considered “in service” with the PLA, yet. And I imagine it’d come under 2nd Arty command, not PLAN so it’s a bit skewed to compare it with the USN. The US strategic command or whatever they call their ICBM/missile group thingy these days, has the PGS under development which will the capabilities of the AShBM on a larger scale but not for moving targets.
As far as PGS, its nothing but a delivery truck on top of Ballistic missile.
Imagine a payload capsual that can do a pull up manuever in its terminal stage and slow down, acquire targets/coordinates, and deploy submunitions the size of JDAMs. well that is how chinese AshBM works too.
as far as in service status goes, you may be right, but they certainly has an ability to “go to war” and they have a small stock, I pretty much have no doubt. Usually DoD underestimates these things. and they even said it is pretty much in place.But I agree with everything else you said — I imagine the aerospace industry would have a lot of other goodies in the works. We’ve already seen pictures of the Sino X-37B/Shenlong?, and there’s evidence of advanced development in lasers and ucavs and uavs (and I’m not talking about ones shown at zhuhai — those are the low end, designed for export). Out of interest, what do you think the chinese analogue to the X-51 is? I haven’t seen or heard of such a platform yet, though I’m sure it exists.
Key to things like X-51 is propulsion. Couple of years ago there is a propulsion conference in Dayton OH on Scramjet propulsion, which I can not confirm that I have part-taken in it. 😀
This is the first time that there is a big Chinese presence there. Americans were shocked at the progress and depth and width of their counter part’s program in china. and the amount of infrastructure (windtunnel, test facility, etc) invested compares favorablly with anyoneelse in the workd. and unlike your unsual stock stereotype chinese (especially the guys doing teh actual work) are usually pretty open and forthwright on these things , once the clearance is given.
guaging from the stuff they are willing to tell, I would not be surprised that they have an active flight program.
and as far as Mr. Kapedani’s reply, I wouldn’t try to dignify those cute one liner retorts with anything meaningful.
on the topic of AWACS.
as far as actual array technology goes KJ-2000 edges E-3 out. I don’t think anyone should doubt that. and their system can volume search, track, act as a datalink, electronic attack and listening, at same time, on the same attenna.
this kind of capability in one platform would not materialize until the E-10 buys.
at least on this front, they are ahead of E-3C. IMHO.
the advantage E-3 got is there is way more of E-3 then the 4-5 birds KJ-2000 fleet. and it is a more mature system.
Numbers absolutely do matter, but interestingly numbers and unit technological edge are not in USAF favor at same time any more, USAF would have to resort to numerical superiority again, at least in this specific area.
on the topic of racism…
Mr. Kapedani conviently left out the whole quote, instead choosing the first part. here is my quote in its entirety.
“of course I would expect you to brush these examples off as a mere propaganda and/or un-reliable un-tested less-capable systems, as those mere commie/orientals can’t possibly be technically capable to do these things.
then so was Chennault’s initial reports on the performance of Mitsubishi Zero back in 1939. “
as we can see, context is not one of Mr. Kapedani’s strong points.
i.e.see my reply in blue
If we are to assume that a car with 4 wheels is the same as any car with 4 wheels, then yes they have the same “mirror” programs. Ignoring actual capabilities and technology, and relying on mock-ups, grainy pictures and “looks”.
Sure, I said “not as potent”, but You can’t deny the width and depth of their programs. show me who one else on earth is developing/flight testing a X-37-type Spaceplane, an-asat missile, and a stealth fighter program at same time? besides the Americans?It would be ridiculous to assume China is comparable to USAF or DARPA. But of course we don’t have to assume. Show me one such program.
once again you are twisting my words. They have comparable organization and comparably programs. That is all I am saying. as for “ridiculous to assume” part, see above for examples.No one can even imagine what the USAF would look like in 2030, and yet you can imagine what the PLAAF will look like. Not a very convincing argument. 2030 is 20 years away, and F-22 will be a 40 year old design; about as relevant as a Mig-23 today.
and that’s right, any thing can happen. so why does one assume American technological exceptionalism would be true in 2030-2050?Such as?? 🙂
well, has USAFfielded an AWACS system with an active electronically scanned array, Today?
Does USN have a 2000km range anti-shipping ballistic missile, in service, Today?of course I would expect you to brush these examples off as a mere propaganda and/or un-reliable un-tested less-capable systems, as those mere commie/orientals can’t possibly be technically capable to do these things.
then so was Chennault’s initial reports on the performance of Mitsubishi Zero back in 1939.
i.e.The Goliath crane ordered by Babcock for the final assembly of the aircraft carriers at Rosyth arrived at the dockyard today from Shanghai Zhenhua Port Machinery Co Ltd (ZPMC) yard….
Damn thing is huge!
on the other hand I feel a bit funny.
if Chinese were to order this giant crane used expressedly for an aircraft carrier construction from UK/US/France, I am pretty sure all kind of fuss would be made about “Enabling Chinese military build up” and “Dual use Export control”. blah blah blah.
funny not a blurp from anyone on this regard if this is other way around. :rolleyes:
hey isn’t much of US Army’s uniforms are Made in China too?
i.e.Orbital or UAV target acquisition. As effector NCADE 2nd stage could suffice, as they’d fall out of the sky from above, with little need to maneuver. It’s not desperate, it takes out key elements at a very early stage of the fight. The more “aerial denial” systems the ChiComs dish up the more unconventional answers are needed for the U.S.
Can I accuse you of stealing ideas from “ChiComs”? 😉
i.e.And here we are talking about another paper air force which supposedly is so overwhelming, desperate measures like missile trucks and ballistic missile delivery systems have to be thought of. Why?
PLAAF’s fighter capability is somewhere between Iraqi airforce on eve of desert storm and premise of RAND’s study.
They certainly do not have the numbers in rand’s study but rand’s study underestimated their technical capability.
let’s put it this way: they pretty much have the same mirror program USAF/DARPA as far as toys-in-work goes. that goes all the wayfrom predator drones to X-51. their motto is: “any thing they have we will have, anything they don’t we will have too”.
May not be as potent as US’s or Russian’s but certainly not a softy.
on the other hand…
Rand’s study presume US and its allies would have technological lead in whatever air conflict that will may come, and their adversary would not be anywhere close. I am not sure that presumption would hold true any longer in 2030-2050 time frame if not earlier… in some specific platform areas it is not true even today.
i.e.Getting the co-ordinates on an AWAC at enormous ranges is the easiest art ever
But the trick is to pass those information to the missile-in-flight. 😀
I personally prefer home on jam with IR-seeker for close targeting.
i.e.Better multi-role capability? (Shrug)
Supposedly it’s meant to be the successor to the Su-30MKI.
JSF is multirole and its a single seater.
actually almost all of today’s new combat aircraft can claim itself to be multirole and most is single seat.
I thought MKI is mostly filled the role of air-superiority?
It’s not like the olden days where you need a WO or a RIO to work those missiles and radars. and you have to carry all that weight and drag around. that’s what software buys you… which I presume is what India is good at. :confused:
i.e.Sadly, they’ve missed their boat with regards the PAK-FA by not concluding negotiations until the prototype was already flying. The T-50’s final design was locked without their input, and thanks to differences of opinion India’s involvement will not be in the PAK-FA but its Indianised 2-seat derivative, the FGFA.
In other words HAL will be co-developing only the export version of the T-50. The one being tested right now will be mostly Russian.
I am dumb founded by FGFA’s two seater requirement. what for?
i.e.Don’t think so. In 2008 and 2009, they really did not build that many ships when compared to other recent years. And even with the restart of 052C productions, they are still continuing and starting production of more 054As. In fact, right now they are doing serial production of 052C, 071, 054A and Improved Yuans. They clearly have the funding. Part of the delay is due to the relocation of JN. Part of the delay due to the time it took to produce GT25000 indigenously. But I think the largest part is that it took them a long time to fix all of the problems in the first 2 units. If you are a PLAN supporter, that’s good news, because that shows they were going for high standards for the combat system. As shown with 054A, it does not take PLAN 7 years to test out a new air defense system.
believe or not PLAN has a finite budget and much of their money is still invested in R/D not building vessels.
they opted for hull number and mature system of 054 then Geewiz of 052C, which paid off hansomely as mch of their older fleet is not really up to running indian ocean patrols. right now they can rotate all of their 054s. with older 051s and 053s… not going to work.
052C was really expensive.
short term GT25000 wasn’t a prob because they can always buy sets from Ukraine and it is cheaper.
the current set they are building this would be the last of 052Cs.
i.e.Do you know how long it needed to make the AEGIS system work? Or the system in the Horizon, LCF and Sachsen (F124) (if they are working already)?
they have a shore bench and a ship bench system working for a long long time.
i.e.If they really needed some kind of super impossible reach by an AAM they’d load ESSM-derived missiles under an F-15E and tote them out there a lot cheaper than developing a single B-1R. The problem with any long range AAm is it’s ballistic trajectory taking it out of the lower atmosphere where it can use conventional fin steering. Your propellant would need to use some kind of exotic multi-pulse strategy that supports thrust vectoring all the way through it’s descent from it’s apogee. Otherwise it’s not going to offer any more practical value than the AIM-120C7.
today’s AAMS have multi-thrust (boost + sustaining) propellent loading anyways. I don’t see real difficulties to put thrust vectoring “fins” and “paddles”. alot of short range ballistic missiles have them too .
another option would be to use lateral thrust engines.
i.e.But it could suggest that it need some time to make them work. The first ships entered service in 2004/05…
believe it or not funds for the followons were cut back to make way on funding for more numerous 054As builds to fill fleet strength. as all those old 051 destroyers and older 053 frigates will retire.
according to my sources anyways.
all system were functioning ok. the major APAR+missile were gestated onboard those testing ships for couple of years.
plus Jiangnan yard was moving to its new locale on Changxin Island away from the prime river front realestate due to expo.
i.e.What do you think of an carrier based AEW using the Y12F?
With a MTOW and installed HP about half of a S-2 Tracker I don’t think this is as capable platform as they like to have on a carrier.
of course installing a radar like the Defender even the AEW Defender with its Skymaster radar would be a good idea: a major customer for the Y-12 and in future the Y-12F would be China Marinetime Survallence under the MoCommunication/Transportation.
it would be handy and cheap little air plane to monitor EEZs.
couple years ago I remember the sukhoi S80 was talked about as a platform for carrier AEW, cargo and ASW. but I think they have gotten over it and I think the platform will be a new or mostly new aircraft.
i.e.The UK have the SAS on the ground in Libya, but nobody knows that. shhh… 😉
If we send troops in, they’ll most probably be on a peace keeping role. But even that can be risky.
yeah, and they got arrested by the rebels and shown the door.
😮
i.e.no-fly zone or not. reality is heavy artillery and mechanized weapons and organized ground forces is where Mr. Q has the upper hand.
Short of a committed war against Mr. Q and taking those out there would be no meaningful translation of any farcicl “No-Fly-Zone” into military and political reality on the ground.
More useful right now would prob JSTAR/Sentienal type of aircraft monitoring movement of Mr. Q’s ground forces to assess its capability and intentions.
very useful to tip the hands for negotiating/force any sort of deal that would surely come.
and quickly end this ridiculous war and save lives and a country from slide into a long civil war.
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