i.e.see my reply in blue
Competence? You could easily make the correlation between the absence of democratic rights and poverty. Or a degenerating democracies and declining living standards. Why? Because governments, who are not responsible to the people, don’t care about them.
Responsible to people and caring about people are two different things.
having a Caring feeling about people and competente enough to delivering wide based economic growth that effectively put your “care” into tangibles (food, water, home, medical care, education, meaningful jobs, retirement pensions, etc) ,
are also two different things.Albe to fairly sharing a pie doesn’t mean the pie can grow bigger. If you have a shrinking pie, doesm’t matter how fairly you cut it, your own peice would shrink.
You gain absolutely nothing, if you have an undemocratic competent government – because they will use their competence to enrich themselves on the expense of most of the people.
Singapore? which has the highest per-capita GDP in the world not built on Oil ?
What about Japan’s LDP’s single party rule during its post war miracle?
Is Britain during its rapid industrialization period a popular democracy?
or even Frederick the great’s Prussia? or Prussia/Germany’s rapid industrialization under the kaiser and Bismarck?
or…Communist China? which for better or worse has one of the highest growth rates consistently for the last 30 years and by all accounts has lifted the a population greater than that of EU combined out of abject poverty in that time and effectively puts the country onto a trajectory towards a global power from an almost a failed state in 60 years time?Clearly there are plenty of historic and contemporary examples which does not fit your assumptions.
In many European states (and also e.g. the US) the democracy is degenerated to the extent that you have actually in many states an oligarchy, which use their power to enrich themselves. The result is a combination of declining economic growth and a even faster declining living standard.
I would argue that popular democracy is one of the reason for degeneration.
for one, the correlation between democracy and competence (good choice) assume that aggregate of individual choices is necessarily the optimal choice. that goes to the core question of competence, that choices has to be made that must be good and close to optimal. Is the aggregate of individual choices is necessarily the optimal choice? I don’t think so.btw,
If one would read some of the philosophical works done during and after classic athenian democracy during and after pelopenesian war, you would find a striking resemblence to contemporary criticism of inadequacies of democracy. the overwhelming of ancient greek thinkers preferred Sparta (meritocracy) and plato’s philosopher kings over the Athenian model.btw, I am not saying democracy and rights are a bad thing and worthless. but they are emprically shown to be neither necessary or sufficient to deliver the growth and prevent decline of economy or living standard.
Sorry I know this is widely OT, we can take it off line if you like. this is an exceedingly interesting conversation.
i.e.You should not be that cynic in regard of people doing something for their freedom, for democracy and their social rights (something which many people in Europa are not doing, which is partly responsible for the declining living standards in many parts of Europe).
IMHO,
declining in living standards in many parts of Europe is in part inevitable result of demanding “democracy and their social rights”. over emphasis on democracy and rights crowded out the the curcial emphasis on competent governance that can deliver
having democracy and rights (or ra’ts, as they would like to say it in the American South) does not garantee that one would have a government competent enough to meet these basic economic inadequacy, that formented these revolutions in the first place. It is not even a necessary let alone sufficient condition.
i.e.see my reply in blue
I was referring to ‘Silent’ modifications to the JF17 when I was referring to airframe development, such as internal weapon bays. There may be CFTs and other tweaks being developed, but nothing as drastic as changing the wing design, a la F16XL (which never went to production anyway).
Silent Eagle has CFTs developed as a Conformal weapon bays.
a wing redesign is not out of question nor capability. if they want they can add bit more span and have a capable small bomb truck (F-18 style) out of it.Besides, for a cheap lightweight fighter, it rather defeats the purpose of then spending additional $$$ on further development, which only adds to its acquisition costs. What’s the point of that when the PLAAF have Su-27 variants, J-10B, JH-7 and now J-20 in the works? I doubt the PLAAF would select the JF-17 for strike role considering the above types already in service/being developed further?
a dedicated CAS fighter would be nice.
Perhaps a strike varient for the export market for those airforces that can’t afford to operate large twin enginned heavy types?
which is why I said never went beyond PD.
i.e.And what would you like to see happen if Gaddafi takes the upper hand and you have tens or hundreds of thousands of his opposition laying dead in the streets? Do we sit idly by and watch another Rwandan genocide type situation play out? I would strongly question the whole point of the UN if that’s what happens again.
A no fly zone shouldn’t be a problem to anyone but Gaddafi and his thugs, oh and of course the usual suspects Russia and China.
for better or worst this is a civil war. This is a problem for Libyans to sort out. The matter of the fact is: Mr. Q has been consistently surpported by UK/US/Italians ever since he turned “good” and paid up for lockerbie and gave up his little toy WMD program.
UK/US/Italian public is going on a guilttrip only now when the nasties is showing up on their nightly tubby and the (liberal moralist victorianish) interventionist impluse got dailed up. people has been shot by the M-4 carbines in streets of Bahrain too and has it received the same amount of attention? do you see US/UK actively call for overthrowing of the absolute monarchy that rules that place? or has it something to do with Iran, oil and bases for US 6th fleet?
a bit more on the moral interventionist impulses and the golden rule:
Let’s suppose an technologically superior ailen civilzation decides that in middle of WW2 that we are too imcompetent to sort out our own immature problems and slaughtering too many innocent life and decides to play god and intervene with force. (oh, and the earth has unobtainium the aliens need and we are siting on top of it and we don’t even know the value. )
would we be happy and accept their intervention? or begrudged and even resist?
…
I am sorry moderators, but I didn’t brought up the topic. I merely expounded my own views on it.
i.e.And what would you like to see happen if Gaddafi takes the upper hand and you have tens or hundreds of thousands of his opposition laying dead in the streets? Do we sit idly by and watch another Rwandan genocide type situation play out? I would strongly question the whole point of the UN if that’s what happens again.
A no fly zone shouldn’t be a problem to anyone but Gaddafi and his thugs, oh and of course the usual suspects Russia and China.
for better or worst this is a civil war. This is a problem for Libyans to sort out. The matter of the fact is: Mr. Q has been consistently surpported by UK/US/Italians ever since he turned “good” and paid up for lockerbie and gave up his little toy WMD program.
UK/US/Italian public is going on a guilttrip only now when the nasties is showing up on their nightly tubby and the (liberal moralist victorianish) interventionist impluse got dailed up. people has been shot by the M-4 carbines in streets of Bahrain too and has it received the same amount of attention? do you see US/UK actively call for overthrowing of the absolute monarchy that rules that place? or has it something to do with Iran, oil and bases for US 6th fleet?
a bit more on the moral interventionist impulses and the golden rule:
Let’s suppose an technologically superior ailen civilzation decides that in middle of WW2 that we are too imcompetent to sort out our own immature problems and slaughtering too many innocent life and decides to play god and intervene with force. (oh, and the earth has unobtainium the aliens need and we are siting on top of it and we don’t even know the value. )
would we be happy and accept their intervention? or begrudged and even resist?
…
I am sorry moderators, but I didn’t brought up the topic. I merely expounded my own views on it.
i.e.Totally agree with you ;). Russians and Chinese are playing politics and it has nothing to do with their commitment to non-intervention.
Considering that a non-intervention policy has brought Chinese nationals easier access out of Libya. At least there is no organized forces shooting at their truck and bus convoys out to ports…by neither pro-or-anti-Q forces. as oppose to the bullet holes on RAF C-130s.
Some times people do appreciate and remember when others refrain from violating a country’s sovereignty even when that country is in chaos.
golden rule my friend, remember the golden rule.
i.e.Totally agree with you ;). Russians and Chinese are playing politics and it has nothing to do with their commitment to non-intervention.
Considering that a non-intervention policy has brought Chinese nationals easier access out of Libya. At least there is no organized forces shooting at their truck and bus convoys out to ports…by neither pro-or-anti-Q forces. as oppose to the bullet holes on RAF C-130s.
Some times people do appreciate and remember when others refrain from violating a country’s sovereignty even when that country is in chaos.
golden rule my friend, remember the golden rule.
i.e.bit funny how our esteemed indian members are all fired up. 😀
anyways, speaking on rumors based on hearsay anchored in speculation here.
I bet FC-1/JF-17 has alot of internal proposed variant.
the weiriest one I have seen/heard is a strike version with a cranked arrow a wing F-16XL style. partially stealthrized. relax, nothing made pass pd stage yet.
There is this one guy on those Chinese bbs supposily has some internal connection and constantly confirming denying rumors and such, and half of the time you should throw out half of the stuff he said. the trick is knowing which half.
anyways, he said in one liner: “Silent Fierce Dragon” might fly eariler than “Silent Flanker”. I was going to file it under BS category. but knowing what I know, who knows.:rolleyes:
i.e.Yes, yes I would partly believe that because it is well known the interior of the cockpit has to be taken into account. However I wouldn’t put one above the other in terms of RCS treatment priority. Both are probably near equals in importance.
– “frames in glass” are a factor in higher frequency bands, you can mitigate them by detail treatments (saw tooth, coating material etc)
– lower frequency bands external shaping is the 1st order effect.
– treatment on cockpit canopy “gold” coating is designed to only partially reflect some band.
i.e.Come on now. Be honest with yourself here; which is going to have a lower RCS, a frameless canopy or a framed one? I think you know the answer as well as I do but you’re loathed to admit it for some odd reason.
what If i tell you the pilot’s helmet gives more of a headache to RCS engineers. would you believe me? :rolleyes:
i.e.most of regular paints or coatings can be applied with a robotic arm.
that is a process which doesn’t imply anything toward the propertis of a certain paint or coating
of course it doesn’t when you are painting stamped car bodies.
but consider that:
– mil fighter usually don’t require robots to pain the primer or the final coat.
– it is mentioned specifically designed ($$$ spent) to apply some top surface coating inside of Intake duct.
– and they made a big deal out of it and they got an award out of it.
:rolleyes:
i.e.as for the 054 deploying in med.
There is still bunch of Chinese trapped in various worksites in the deep Libyan interior. a Z-8 based on LPD in med don’t have the range and they wouldn’t send any semi-armed landing parties overland while people are shooting at them. (thats;s why their Il-76s are using Khartom as their fwd base to run shuttles into southern lybia )
But some military prescense is a good way to hedge bets if this thing turns out nasty. especially if Mr. Cameron decides to start dropping bombs before the last parties of Chinese got out. a chartered ferry in a war zone is one thing. a chartered ferry escorted by a frigate is another.
If something really nasty happened:
that LPD they have off horn of africa can make a good 20 kts could in med in no time. they have accelerated the rotation schedule are readying two more warships to take up station in Indian Ocean. so in a month they could have half of the south china sea fleet steaming towards med. and that’s no joke.
and they if they really tried they can levy a bunch of ro-ros and mount a sizable expeditionary/rescue force with fwd base in Sudan.
I predict shooting will start once every citizen of nation of consequence leaves. the question is how many foreign hostages Mr. Q will take.
i.e.anyways.
Any one heard the rumor of “Silent Fierce Dragon” or “Silent Thunder” FC-1/JF-17?
i.e.seems that WT tests and runs at full-scale engine rig have shown that all problems are solvable, so S-ducts from earlier iterations were dismissed
once more, KRR at T-50 will look rather different but principle is the same – trapping waves coming from most probable directions inside a series of radial cylinders
is the cylinders rotating or fixed?
Interesting solution to say the least.
change the current intake config to an S-Duct would certainly has to change the external geometry. Not a trivial task at this point of the program. bravo to russians experts who has such confidence.
ps. there is this recent “leak” on the chinese press about some university developed a robotic arm for CAC to apply coating inside of J-20’s intake duct? wonder what kind of coating that needs an robotic arm.
i.e.Thats interesting. But why did the Israelis even consider a frame less canopy to start with? Its not like the rest of the aircraft is/was LO shaped in any way. (Cuz that whats it for according to all internet experts, right)?
F16?
connection between LO and frameless is pure….
no problem about the cost. they can just buy it from China! most likely cheap and already being produced for the J-20!
lame flame.
any way back to T-50.
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