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January 18, 2011 at 3:26 pm in reply to: J-20 Black Eagle – Part 4 #2360450

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I was talking about what effect of UP WASH ahead of the leading edge of the wing has on the canard. The closer to the wing’s leading edge,

what I meant was really low speed. approach speed or less.

January 18, 2011 at 3:24 pm in reply to: J-20 Black Eagle – Part 4 #2360453

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Why don’t you join and see for yourself or atleast read the Terms of Use.

No I believe your earnesty on this issue to a certain extent.

January 18, 2011 at 3:16 pm in reply to: J-20 Black Eagle – Part 4 #2360464

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f 16.net has a lot of former pilots and people in the know. That site is closely monitoered by the U.S authorities for potential leak of classified data as well. Hence to dismiss every user there as a fanboy is ludicrous.

I am sure. I am sure.

January 18, 2011 at 3:14 pm in reply to: J-20 Black Eagle – Part 4 #2360467

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Guizhou’s found a way to squeeze out a little more from the MiG-21 😉

and where did they get their design data from I wonder… hummmm….. 😎

the proposed avic “skunkwork” centers means consolidations.

Guizhou has a good working relationship with 611.

January 18, 2011 at 2:27 am in reply to: counter stealth: the way forward for Europe? #2360786

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Because an armed F-16 is unlikely to exceed M1.6(perhaps with a pair of wingtip missile it might).

really. “might”? :rolleyes:

January 18, 2011 at 2:26 am in reply to: J-20 Black Eagle – Part 4 #2360788

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Semms a Raptor fans is not going to believe it:)
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-77-start-105.html
We will find that X-29 had the same data by google.
Also notice it is no always better to enlarge the unstable data, so this is a reference not a ditermination.

1 pronouncement by a fan boy. on a forum.
😀

January 18, 2011 at 2:06 am in reply to: J-20 Black Eagle – Part 4 #2360805

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Making endless incrementally improved re-hashes of an existing design seems more SAC’s style than CAC’s anyways. 😉

hey,
CAC started out making J-7s and they only stop making modifications last year. J-7E/PG is as about as far as you can squeeze out on the original Mig-21F-13

January 18, 2011 at 1:47 am in reply to: Export orders J-20 vs PAK-FA??? #2360848

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Participant

Why would the PLAAF need an F35 equivalent to fill the numbers?

Does the USAF need the F35?

There are some very convincing arguments against paying through the nose and making significant design and capability compromises just in order to attain a stealth capability that will only be useful for ‘first day of war’ missions, which will be pointless for 99% of the time and missions.

It will be interesting to get a good look at the weapons bays of the J20 to see it might have the potential to double up as a striker or its just optimized for AA.

If the J20 has the size and depth in its weapons bays for a reasonable internal load of SDBs, then it would probably be a lot better to just buy more J20s. That plus the PLA’s extensive UAV and UCAV projects should more than cover the dangerous strike mission requirements while the likes of the Su30, J11BS and JH7 would be perfectly good bomb trucks after the enemy’s air defenses has been suitably degraded and suppressed by the stealthy and expendable assets.

Just because the USAF/USN has gone one way does not mean it is sensible to blindly copy.

TBH, I would be a lot happier if the PLA stuck with conventional aircraft for the numbers while using the money saved from getting a cheaper, less capable Fifth gen F35 equivalent to buy a few more regiments of J20s.

they defintely want something competitive (with all the euro canards and teenseries +++s, SH, F16BLK60, 15E/SilentEagle flooating around) to keep some sort of squadron strength. they have just stopped making regular J-7s forcristsake. and I am not even sure J-8 line is closed!.
J-7 + J-8 together that’s a 1000+ aircraft. assume a 10:8 replacement that is still a 800 plane buy. not counting all the Q-5s that needs to put into musems. go for a J-10B follow on with WS-15 optimized for A2A! forget SAC and let them loose to make fuselages for Transports.

January 18, 2011 at 1:38 am in reply to: J-20 Black Eagle – Part 4 #2360862

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Thanks i.e. I heard about that twin enginned J-10 some time ago, I think there were even some CGI fan art flying about somewhere, during the early days of J-20 speculation 🙂

However, if the reports are correct of the J-20 avionics and sub-systems being tested on J-10B, could we see some advanced kit being introduced into J-10B, kinda like a 4G++ (3G++ in Chinese) fighter?

well for once thoose CGIs were onto something.

yeah now I think about it more, WS-15 is not that a huge dimension step up wise compare to WS-10 or a AL-31FN ( actually I think WS-10 is wider in diameter than AL-31FN, they had to redesign the rear fuselage to fit in AL-31F)
theoritically they can design a stealthrized J-10(C?) with a slightly scaled up wing and redesigned rear fueslage, and a stealthrized front. may be by that time capitalize on what J-10B already has plus J-20’s gain in avionics and stealth. with some good conformals on the body for may be 4-SD-21s and two IR missiles…a2g stores all external. 2025 entry into service?

nice eh? looks extremely good bang for the buck wise.

back in the day PLAAF brass was fantasizing a all flanker force. but apparently with J10s in “operation” the feed back front pilots has been very good. PLAAF line pilots actually likes the J-10 alot. nothing wrong with following up with a better version of what you already like. 😀

January 18, 2011 at 1:08 am in reply to: counter stealth: the way forward for Europe? #2360871

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It would be irrelevant if the F-16 lit up at M1.6, as it would be unarmed, and secondly, were the F-35 unarmed, there’d likely only be a M.2 difference in speed.

why would F16 be un armed?

January 17, 2011 at 11:57 pm in reply to: counter stealth: the way forward for Europe? #2360913

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I would think that he was talking about subsonic and supersonic because right from the start of the article it’s made clear that he’s done a fair bit of supersonic flight, note thsat he also says “The jet handles well, and she just wants to fly fast. It has a monster engine”

well, if F-16 lit up go M>1.6, I don’t think he can follow.

January 17, 2011 at 11:56 pm in reply to: counter stealth: the way forward for Europe? #2360916

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My spreadsheet comparison of clean F-16 blk 50 vs. F-35A shows: F-16 has a big advantage at the lower drag states. Namely the subsonic realm where its higher a = (T-D)/W ratio plays a critical role. As you get a bit quicker and the drag builds up and the F-35A starts to edge ahead a bit with a slightly higher acceleration factor from mach 0.8 onwards through the transonic realm. The spreadsheet loses quite a lot of fidelity when into the mid supersonic regime. The F-16 recovers energy quicker than the F-35A. In the supersonic realm I am a bit suspect of the weapons configuration for the F-16. The AAM stores – save those on the wingtips – are not as refined as they are on the Typhoon for supersonic performance.

your engine thrust a constant number with speed?

January 17, 2011 at 11:46 pm in reply to: J-20 Black Eagle – Part 4 #2360919

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Participant

Thanks, I’ve been following that site for a number of years, it appears to discuss currently known fighter programmes and broader speculation, but it doesn’t indicate any form of single engine smaller 5G programme?

I heard from somewhere that there was a large twin WS-10 engined stealthrized J-10 scaled up (think M2K => M4K) concept. shot down in favor of the true heavy. part of the resources went into J10B.
given a new engine chengdu could revive that project in form of a stealthrized and up-engined J-10B++. (pure speculation). in export and low-end role.

SAC, having lost to Chengdu in the heavies competition, is peddling around a super-hornet sized, flankerism inspired, med sized manned fighter targeting PLAN’s carrier J-15 replacement requirement. requiring nex-gen mid sized engine. no one is taking the bait.

other than that I don’t know of any.

proposed AVIC consolidation would eat away alot of traditional players. Shanxi, Guizhou, Hongdu, are all in bit of a trouble. SAC is getting some heavy attention.

meanwhile over in AVWEEK land they still think this thing is more of a striker. :rolleyes:

January 17, 2011 at 6:37 pm in reply to: J-20 Black Eagle – Part 4 #2361115

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I really wish that Song paper would get translated eventually, my kindergarten level simplified Chinese is nowhere near enough to read all that and I hear its very informative

I have a transpacific flight coming up.
Can’t sleep on airplane anyways. 😀

January 17, 2011 at 6:19 pm in reply to: J-20 Black Eagle – Part 4 #2361134

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I wouldn’t be surprised for that static margin for EF though. It was born to be agile in the supersonic regime anyway.

so you see alot of canard trim deflections in EF’s lowspeed level flights?
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