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October 31, 2011 at 1:03 am in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375307

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Participant

How many WS-10s are in this picture.

A picture is worth a thousands words,

in this case may be 10,000 of Mr Teer’s. 🙂

one’s inability to access 1/5 of humanitie’s language is no excuse for sheer ignorance and stupidity.

October 31, 2011 at 1:01 am in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375309

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Participant

How many WS-10s are in this picture.

A picture is worth a thousands words,

in this case may be 10,000 of Mr Teer’s. 🙂

October 30, 2011 at 9:15 pm in reply to: Boeing vs Eurofighter vs Lockheed for KFX #2375434

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Participant

i thought the Koreans wanted to go on their own!?

No wonder “Koreans wanted to go on their own!”!!!

October 30, 2011 at 9:11 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375438

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Participant

About as much as your land of denial.

??

what did I exactly deny?

go look at my first post on this thread today.

where did I deny anything?

any time I am trying to bringing some nuiances into the thread with technical details, you crowd of IP-fanatics jump in yelling “rip-offs” and unfortunately taken this potentially execellent thread into the gutters.

so please, before you *******ing point your fingers at me.

October 30, 2011 at 9:09 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375443

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Participant

what the **** is a “airframe” anyways.
the outer mold line?
the way structure is built up to a final shape?

can you actually patent a outer mold line?

October 30, 2011 at 9:05 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375452

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Participant

And it is still a rip-off at the end of the day. And no one in the ex-USSR denies that.

ok it is a rip-off are you happy.

so beside making everyone to use the word “rip-off”. or else heap mounts of ridicule upon any one who takes a nuianced view….

what is your value added contribution to sum of our knowledge about anything today? none-zilch-nada-lin

October 30, 2011 at 9:02 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375464

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Participant

Yep. How dare anyone question if the mighty Chinese aviation complex (known for ALL those world class platforms) can replicate and supersede EVERY SINGLE performance characteristic of the plane it ripped-off. What an unreasonable point to bring up.

Whatever. At least I don’t live in denial.

refuse to look at nuances and instead dive into these diatribes, not really constructive and don;t really contributed any knowledge to anyone.

October 30, 2011 at 9:01 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375468

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Participant

Yep. And no one is in denial that it is a blatant copy.

None of this “hurr durr, it had better defensive guns! its more of a modernization11” nonsense.

Nice try though.

Bull was not an “balatant copy” of B-29.
the proper term is reverse engineering.

since Tupoleve has no B-29 engineering data on hand. He had to redo alot of the technical work to back everything out from the production version.

October 30, 2011 at 8:59 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375473

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Participant

LOL…..No matter how Chinese spin things. A copy is a copy even if it is just an airframe. You would be sued if both the companies were in same country. Because the one who designed it first would have spent millions of dollars designing basic airframe.

Can somebody post any source that states insides of Chinese “Flanker” are different from Russian “Flanker”.

same type of things were said of Japanese aviation technology, pre-1940.

October 30, 2011 at 8:49 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375487

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Participant

Agreed Teer. The J-15 matching the Su-33 in all parameters is certainly a reasonable question.

since PLA never will publish any of these data, you guys are certainly in a safe position :rolleyes:

October 30, 2011 at 8:48 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375489

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Participant

You can upgrade a copy (not like modern avionics and uprated are a huge upgrade, but that aside), but that still makes it largely a complete rip off. Ok, modernized rip-off. Much better.

If Russia took the F-15A, put on 117S and Bars on it, hell, lets say ECM pods for the “structural difference” argument, it is still a blatant copy.

Upgrade is Su-27SM from Su-27. What is so hard to understand, honestly?

It’s more like take a prototype variant F-15N-PHX with F100-PW-100 and turn it into a F-15E/I/K/S variant with F110-GE-129, with new composite structures, new battle electronics, new radar.

Rip-off /copy cat/ what-you-may-call-it.

…

typically when you want to “rip-off” some airplane, you can’t just go out there and copy the parts for part. that may work for a tigermoth, but that doesn’t work for a complex airplane. you need to at-least re-validate your outermold line aerodynamics and then structural loads analysis. especially if we are talking about a new engine, and new radar and weight savings with composites. basically re-do the structure design. at least make sure what you changed don’t screw everything else up. and you can’t back out fbw software from a black box, at least I don;t know anyone has done it that way, so basically a redesign based on your structure and aero data.

what is the difference between that set of work load and a new airplane design? not much actually. the difference I guess is having the comfort of knowing that your aerodynamic will get you close to your intended target performane.. that’s pretty much it. .

October 30, 2011 at 8:40 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375503

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Participant

Not just the avionics, that’s usually the relatively easy part – heck even much older gen planes have been upgraded. I am talking of the overall aircraft – the structures, the reliability, etc. Thats the point – if the J-15 is an upgrade, it has to be better in at least some and at least equal across the board in the rest of the parameters. Right now we cannot say that.

Plus, I am not yet sold on the WS-10 TBH. Lets give it a few years. The AL-31 series OTOH, has demonstrated reliability and performance. Its a proven engine.

yep.

those who are in charge of PLAN are much less competent than Mr. Teer. 🙂

and that part about “just the avionics is the relatiely easy part”.
yep.

October 30, 2011 at 7:14 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375617

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Participant

Only in the sense that the F 16 E is a complete new airplane or MIG 35 is a complete new airplane.

and you have no idea…

October 30, 2011 at 7:02 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375641

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Participant

Not worth trying again 🙂 its up to you if you don’t want to then don’t do. No one is forcing you.

One question if not Aiframe what is the part that makes a fighter distinct ? You called my reply emblematic what is it that makes a fighter this and another one that. Please don’t say FBW :rolleyes:

are you aware of the US marine corp’s CH-53K project?
marines wants something looks like a CH-53E, externally, alot of same parts but not all. new bigger engines and rotors. to carry alot of more stuff. easy low cost simple right? wrong.

but complete new airplane as far as R&D goes.

so much for same airframe = same airplane.

October 30, 2011 at 6:42 pm in reply to: MiG-29KUB vs Su-33/J-15 #2375668

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Participant

Its up to you actually I add people who I think are knowledgeable as my friends here. It does not matter whether I agree with them on politics or not. 😉

It has nothing to do with politics. try again.
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