Ken
Welcome back & thanks for clarification. Now I’m not an expert on this but I thought in the early Sea Dart system the 909 had to be locked on and the Sea Dart itself receiving reflective signal to be able to commit to launch (unless it was an overridden). If it was only the 992 showing phantom reflections how would the 909 achieve lock or am I missing something?

Interesting comments regarding the combat logs. I’ve complied my list of launches from individual accounts but even these can have times and details variations.

I would really like to find an above deck eye witness account of HMS Exeter attempt at engaging an Exocet on the 25 May. I’ve seen an account from the op room which records that the 909 did lock, the Sea Dart did guide and proximity fuse detonated the warhead, although most likely against the surface of the water, but nobody seems to know exactly what happened next. Very shortly after this the Exocet disappeared from radar but this was not unexpected given its very low altitude which limited the radar tracking horizon.

Another Sea Dart mystery is HMS Coventrys launch late in the day of 9th May. I have seen a log of radio information which records hearing ‘bird away, Coventry’ at 19.02. This is not mentioned in the book Four weeks in May by captain Hart Dyke which details HMS Coventry’s Falkland campaign and sinking. Incidentally this book tallies with other launch with the independent information. However the published HMS Coventry court of enquiry records an event at this time, only to then be followed by about half a page of redaction. What’s so secret about this launch, an aborted blue on blue maybe?

Thank you, it’s great to respond to you guys again.

I see where you are coming from with the lock up of spurious radar returns. And it was a great source of mystery to me when I witnessed it for real, yes I have seen the 909 radar show a lock symbol (diamond for forward and square for aft) on spurious contacts. I don’t know the answer and wish I had the balls to ask at the time!

You may not know this but Bristol’s operators picked up two spurious returns and fired at both and in a different direction to us in Cardiff (we were only tracking one) so a strange phenomenon indeed! I have always been told it was 992 mutual interference, sorry.

As for the missile having to detect the 909 radar presence before a launch can be initiated, I’m dubious about that. The 909 has a ‘pencil beam’ radar profile and with the radar being (physically) in a position on the ship that is significantly higher than the launcher, then add the fact that I have never heard a voice launch procedure to state that the missile has ‘contact’ with 909 leaves me with the opinion that the missile picks up and ‘rides’ the 909 after launch. On the other hand you could be absolutely right.

Can’t help you with the Exeter and Coventry issue, just do not know.

Thanks for comments on Sea Dart firings. Ethell and Price say that both Cardiff and Bristol fired two Darts each and the radar operator of the Cardiff describes the Boeing 707 firings very clearly. However I can find no description of the Bristol firings. Would like to explore more.

I suspect there is not much to report. Their gunnery team fired at two spurious air contacts caused by mutual radar interference (992). It was a common problem at the time but I will add that Bristol fired in a direction almost 180 degrees from us in Cardiff.

Some good people on this thread including a former Sea Harrier pilot. Post #280 does not refer to the bombing of the Hercules but it may be possible to contact Ian Inskip if you felt the need. A browse of the thread is quite interesting also.

http://www.pprune.org/military-aircrew/297920-falklands-crash-sites.html

Post #280
“As you say, I’ve confined that book to the fiction section. Incidentally, I’ve asked Ian Inskip (Navigator, Glamorgan) if he could join us and I very much hope could add his insight into the discussion.”

santiagorivas,

From memory Cardiff was about a thousand miles or so from the TEZ when the 707 incident occurred. I had heard that Coventry had tried to engage the 707 the same day also.

We arrived in the TEZ on the morning of 26 May. Why are you confused my friend?

Hi Ken:
I found aditional info about Canberras at Falklands and 1st may and 13th june missions(in spanish):
http://www.angelfire.com/ga4/aerovirtual/htm/Info_Canberra.html

There is a testimony from Rivolier (I´ll try to translate as best I can):

“Eran cerca de las once de la noche y unas cinco millas antes de llegar al punto tiramos, porque hay que tener en cuenta que las bombas en su caída libre hacen un vuelo. Yo fui el primero en tirar, porque el “Baco” 1, esto lo supe después, se había desviado un poco al este. Cuando viro para salir por el mismo lugar por donde había entrado, veo cinco resplandores intensos que correspondían a las explosiones y pocos segundos después veo otra serie de resplandores. Era el otro Canberra que también había tirado.”

It was around 11 pm and just 5 miles befor get the target we dropped because it´s needed to know that a bomb in free fall makes a flight pattern. I was first to bomb as Baco 1, and I knew this after, had deviated himself just a little towards east. When I turn to go back by the same way where I have came, I saw 5 intense flashes from the explosions of my bombs and a few seconds shortly, another serie of flashes. They were from the other Canberra that also had bombed.

“Hasta ahí todo había andado bárbaro, los Mirage nos estaban cuidando y de repente cuando los ingleses se dieron cuenta de que no era una maniobra de diversión, que realmente habían tirado con bombas, dijeron “¡A estos tipos los tenemos que bajar!” y ahí empezó el drama de los misiles. E1 operador del radar Malvinas nos advirtió “cañitas voladoras en el aire” y el jefe de la sección de Mirage nos confirmó luego que vio cinco misiles. Yo personalmente sólo vi uno.”

Till then everything was right, Mirage were looking after us and suddenly when english noticed this was not a diersionary sortie and we had really bombed them, told themselves “These guys have to be downed”, and there started the missiles drama. Malvinas radar operator advised us “fly pipes in the air” and Mirage leader confirmed after he saw 5 missiles. I personally only saw one.

“Entonces eyecto los tanques suplementarios (de combustible) y cuando estoy en el viraje veo una luz roja que se aproxima desde la derecha, indudablemente era un misil. Le digo al navegador que largue las contramedidas y así lo hace, pero el misil no nos alcanza porque aparentemente había superado su alcance y agotó el combustible.”

Then I jettissoned my tip fuel tanks and during my turn I see a red light closing from the right, undoubtable a missile. I told my navigator to drop countermeasures and he makes it, but the missile didn´t hit us cause apparently had exceeded its range and was ran out of fuel.

According to this, did Major Sánchez confuse the 5 flashes from bomb explosions from Canberra with a volley of missiles?
In an account from “Falklands witness of battles” he talks about one erratic missile too.

Regards

Thanks for the translation. Very interesting indeed, I did not consider that the detonating bombs from a Canberra could be what some of the aviators were mistaking for SAM launches. I assumed they were confusing the fall of shot from the ships conducting NGS for Seadart launches. Did Rivolier know where B-108 was when he noticed the the inbound Seadart? It’s logical to me that he must have seen the Seadart that hit B-108.

The Lynx was attached to HMS Cardiff (335) and piloted by Lieutenant Clayton RN. He was conducting a surface search when he was ‘bounced’ by a pair of Daggers, evaded them and was very lucky to survive the encounter.

Lt. Clayton was Mentioned in Despatches for the actions he took during the attack.

Hardly. 🙂

As you say it always seems to be quoted as twenty missiles, or twenty-two (two on the launcher? – not sure they’d work after a good soaking), or wrongly forty for the ‘stretched’ Batch 3 Type-42 ships. Twenty missiles never sounded that many to me but, tragically as it turned out, the designers were right and that seems to have been enough.

Did the red Sea Dart missiles fly then? I thought the red ones were just ‘display’ and ‘handling’ rounds.

No the red ones did not fly, as you say they were just for display.