BoxmanAll extremely interesting and quite the mystery.
Without any knowlege of how the Klemm / Daimler / Aeromarine relationship worked, could it be possible that Klemm (Daimler-Klemm) manufactured the airframe and engine in Germany and then sent them on to Aeromarine as a knock-down kit for assembly and sale in the US?
Then there’s this information at Aerofiles:
http://www.aerofiles.com/_aeromar.html
L-20 (Boland ) 1928 = 2pOlwM; 20hp Mercedes; span: 38’0″ v: 80/66/20. Hans Klemm (Germany), from his 1923 design, Klemm-Daimler L.20 (aka D-M-G L.20). All-wood construction, part fabric-covered wing. Pivoting wingtips for ailerons, later replaced by conventional ailerons. POP: 1 for design evaluation [867W]. Others registered under the Klemm title [eg: 4919, 4920], with Mercedes motors, are probably German imports of an earlier date.
Interestinger and interestinger. . .
EDIT: OK, looking into this further, I think we may have or be closer to an answer! I cannot read German but thanks to the wonder that is Google Translate, it would seem that five (5) L20s were shipped to the United States on board the SS Dresden with Hanns Klemm in March 1928. Further, according to the site, it was planned that production of the first US-manufactured Aeromarine-Klemm aircraft was not commence until at least January 1929.
As you can see from the SDASM photos and the handwritten captions, the Klemm in the photos was here in the United States at least as early as July 1928 – after Hanns Klemm arrived in the US on SS Dresden in March of that year, and before the first licensed-built Aeromarine-Klemm aircraft was completed (at the earliest!) in January 1929.
So, it would seem that that 4921 was indeed German-built!!!
Here is the translation of the German-language Klemm site into English – so the language/spelling may be a bit awkward/stilted:
https://hannsklemm.wordpress.com/liezensen/aeromarine-klemm/
In March 1928 Hanns Klemm traveled with the “Dresden” with five L20 in the luggage across the pond.
. . .In June 1928, the company Aeromarine announced the produce terminal Klemm Daimler aircraft at its factory in Keyport. Inglis Uppercu, the president of the company founded a new company, “Aeromarine Klemm Corporation” on 01 July 1928.
Of the 1,000 aircraft piece should be produced and cost under $ 3,000. The company got for the aircraft production rights in the United States. In December 1928, the new terminal was exhibited at the “International Civil Exhibition” in Chicago.
The first machine sold went to the Flight Club Pegasians in New York. Production should begin in January 1929 with the production of a machine / day. The only part that would not be produced in the factory, was the engine. Instead of the German 20 PS engine, the Company decided to import the 40 hp Salmson motor of France and installed. During the exhibition, to $3,500 to 4,000 per aircraft.
The shareholders of the new company decided to buy on December 8, 1928 230 acres of land and buildings of the Aeromarine Plane and Motor Company. Between 1,000 and 1,200 people were estimated for the production of the new aircraft. In February 1929, two Klemm on the New York Aviation Show has been exhibited in Grand Central Palace. The two models were the Mohawk, and the Pinto.
It would appear, as the information at Aerofiles and the German-language Klemm site suggests, that NC4921 was one of the five Klemm L20 aircraft that were imported to the United States aboard SS Dresden when Hanns Klemm came over to the US to negotiate a license agreement to produce his aircraft here in March 1928.
BoxmanI have been going through the San Diego Air & Space Museum’s (SDASM) collection of photos on Flickr and have come across photos of the Klemm (4921 / C4921 / NC4921) from 1928 in the Fred Alvin Jones Album Collection. I hope these photos are helpful (larger versions of these photos are available through the links above the photos):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/13915208213/
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/13915149395/
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/13915579754/
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BoxmanMaybe it was worth it, maybe it will reduce terrorism. But maybe tomorrow, or the next day, or in 6 months time, some suicidal maniac will walk into a crowded shopping centre, football stadium or school with twenty or thirty pounds of explosive strapped to them and leaving behind their video saying how they only did it to avenge the death of Osama Bin Laden. Wonder whether we’d think it was worth it then?
Regards,
kev35
Yes it will. Because, making civil societies live in constant worry about the sensitivities of murderous zealots is exactly what OBL and his ilk want and how they have operated for at least 15 years. They have sought to impose their warped version of Islam upon millions of others through terror. They have terrorized and murdered thousands of people all across the globe for trivial “insults,” real or perceived.
If the death of OBL is what triggers a suicide bombing, so be it. If OBL was not killed, I’m sure a suicide bomber so-motivated would find some other excuse to carry out such a deed, be it a cartoon that offended him, a “Winnie The Pooh” featuring Piglet was broadcast, or the 2012 Olympics logo wasn’t to their liking.
To hear effort should have been made to ensure OBL had his day in court is laughable. He did not set in motion a civil crime, he set in motion an act of nationless war. When confronted by armed American soldiers, there’s no word he offered to surrender – armed or not. In fact, if he wanted to avail himself of the courts, he had almost 10 years to announce his surrender, and given his wealth and network, probably could have done so in a public way and strolled into a Swiss embassy or consulate in some far off corner somewhere.
The bottom line is, he died in the war he commenced, and not a soul should grieve for him, nor seek to soothe or give consideration to the warped b*st*rds allied or inspired by him.
BoxmanMaybe it was worth it, maybe it will reduce terrorism. But maybe tomorrow, or the next day, or in 6 months time, some suicidal maniac will walk into a crowded shopping centre, football stadium or school with twenty or thirty pounds of explosive strapped to them and leaving behind their video saying how they only did it to avenge the death of Osama Bin Laden. Wonder whether we’d think it was worth it then?
Regards,
kev35
Yes it will. Because, making civil societies live in constant worry about the sensitivities of murderous zealots is exactly what OBL and his ilk want and how they have operated for at least 15 years. They have sought to impose their warped version of Islam upon millions of others through terror. They have terrorized and murdered thousands of people all across the globe for trivial “insults,” real or perceived.
If the death of OBL is what triggers a suicide bombing, so be it. If OBL was not killed, I’m sure a suicide bomber so-motivated would find some other excuse to carry out such a deed, be it a cartoon that offended him, a “Winnie The Pooh” featuring Piglet was broadcast, or the 2012 Olympics logo wasn’t to their liking.
To hear effort should have been made to ensure OBL had his day in court is laughable. He did not set in motion a civil crime, he set in motion an act of nationless war. When confronted by armed American soldiers, there’s no word he offered to surrender – armed or not. In fact, if he wanted to avail himself of the courts, he had almost 10 years to announce his surrender, and given his wealth and network, probably could have done so in a public way and strolled into a Swiss embassy or consulate in some far off corner somewhere.
The bottom line is, he died in the war he commenced, and not a soul should grieve for him, nor seek to soothe or give consideration to the warped b*st*rds allied or inspired by him.
BoxmanThere is some chatter that two MH-47s and two Blackhawk variants (Pave Hawks? 160th SOAR’s Blackhawks?) were used.
How Osama bin Laden died: Details of the commando raid that killed the world’s most wanted man
Los Angeles Times
May 2, 2011
Excerpt:
“The carefully rehearsed operation struck about 1:30 a.m. Monday local time.
It involved flights from an Afghanistan base by four Blackhawk and Chinook helicopters, one of which suffered mechanical failure and made a hard landing within the compound.
It was later destroyed by the commandos.
About 40 troops, largely Navy SEALs, were involved, with 24 rappelling into the compound from the hovering Chinooks. Officials said the firefight was fierce and significant.”
Full Story Hyperlinked Through Title
BoxmanWhere did they obtain the reference sample of his DNA?
From OBL’s sister’s brain.
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/r/27739824/detail.html
Report: DNA At Mass. General Confirms bin Laden’s Death
DNA From bin Laden’s Sister Collected At Massachusetts General
BOSTON — The death of a sister of Osama bin Laden at Massachusetts General Hospital allowed the United States to confirm bin Laden’s death, ABC News reported.
When his sister died in Boston, tissue from her body was taken by government officials for DNA testing, ABC News correspondent Brian Ross reported.
BoxmanWhere did they obtain the reference sample of his DNA?
From OBL’s sister’s brain.
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/r/27739824/detail.html
Report: DNA At Mass. General Confirms bin Laden’s Death
DNA From bin Laden’s Sister Collected At Massachusetts General
BOSTON — The death of a sister of Osama bin Laden at Massachusetts General Hospital allowed the United States to confirm bin Laden’s death, ABC News reported.
When his sister died in Boston, tissue from her body was taken by government officials for DNA testing, ABC News correspondent Brian Ross reported.
BoxmanReports say the compound OBL was hiding in was relatively new (reportedly built in 2005), with the building being at least three stories and surrounded by 15-foot walls. Also, reports (if they are to be believed) say the compound hadn’t any internet or phone connections. Amazing that such a large compound could be constructed without any sort of “curiosity” on the part of the government or police.
Also, as a commentator on the news said this evening, this was not a missile fired from a drone that took out OBL from out of the blue. This was done by US Special Forces, who penetrated the compound. He said, there should be some sort of small solace taken in the fact that OBL spent his last moments of his miserable life probably shocked, surprised, and scurrying like a rat knowing he was about be killed by an American.
As someone who lost close friends, neighbors, and classmates on September 11, 2001, I again say, good riddance. Publish the photos of his corpse, cremate it, and scatter his ashes in the nearest cesspool.
BoxmanReports say the compound OBL was hiding in was relatively new (reportedly built in 2005), with the building being at least three stories and surrounded by 15-foot walls. Also, reports (if they are to be believed) say the compound hadn’t any internet or phone connections. Amazing that such a large compound could be constructed without any sort of “curiosity” on the part of the government or police.
Also, as a commentator on the news said this evening, this was not a missile fired from a drone that took out OBL from out of the blue. This was done by US Special Forces, who penetrated the compound. He said, there should be some sort of small solace taken in the fact that OBL spent his last moments of his miserable life probably shocked, surprised, and scurrying like a rat knowing he was about be killed by an American.
As someone who lost close friends, neighbors, and classmates on September 11, 2001, I again say, good riddance. Publish the photos of his corpse, cremate it, and scatter his ashes in the nearest cesspool.
BoxmanThe Cuban regime still has a few more MiG-21s and MiG-23s to assume the vital Cessna-interceptor role. :rolleyes:
BoxmanA Marine Corps MV-22 Osprey belonging to the 26 MEU off of USS Kearsarge (LHD-3) reportedly rescued the other crew member.
BoxmanQuick question here, and I am not sure if it will solicit a quick answer. I notice the latest 767-based proposal for the KC-X features a new boom seemingly based on the McDonnell Douglas boom used on the KC-10 and KDC-10. Boeing has been proposing various versions of the KC-767 for over a decade and all of them (including those sold to Japan and Italy) have featured a Boeing-style boom.
Every time I have seen one of these proposals, I have always wondered why Boeing didn’t utilize the McDonnell Douglas designed boom considering its more advanced design and Boeing’s acquisition of McDonnell Douglas in 1997? So, my question is, why did Boeing resist using the McDonnell Douglas boom these past 13 years, and what occurred with this latest RFP that finally compelled them to do so? Was it merely the transfer rate (Boeing Boom ~1,000 gal/min maximum v. MDD Boom ~1,200 gal/min maximum)?
BoxmanSkies have cleared over Everett. Engines starting. Looks like they are getting ready to go.
BoxmanI don’t think anybody buys one way, there are so many cheap deals on returns they are mostly cheaper. I often fly out to Canada on A.Can but back with BA. We book a return trip for each leg of the journey and cancel the legs we don’t need. Crazy world.
As for this terrorist, is he in a US State where execution is permitted?
He will be tried in a federal court on terrorism charges (the fact that he is being tried in a civil criminal court – as per the Obama Administration, rather than a military tribunal is a subject of significant controversy here), and since no one was killed (through no lack of trying) he will not face the death penalty. The likely outcome for the terrorist in this case is “three hots and a cot” for at least a couple of decades in a federal prison – which, of course, is a far more generous fate than his would-be victims would have suffered if he had succeeded.
BoxmanI don’t think anybody buys one way, there are so many cheap deals on returns they are mostly cheaper. I often fly out to Canada on A.Can but back with BA. We book a return trip for each leg of the journey and cancel the legs we don’t need. Crazy world.
As for this terrorist, is he in a US State where execution is permitted?
He will be tried in a federal court on terrorism charges (the fact that he is being tried in a civil criminal court – as per the Obama Administration, rather than a military tribunal is a subject of significant controversy here), and since no one was killed (through no lack of trying) he will not face the death penalty. The likely outcome for the terrorist in this case is “three hots and a cot” for at least a couple of decades in a federal prison – which, of course, is a far more generous fate than his would-be victims would have suffered if he had succeeded.
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