“…and from the next year, a fourth type will be added. The F-16 Block 50. 10-12 brand new machines, BVR capable, fitted with state of the art avionics.”
Good acquisition but i read on AI magazine that the F-16s will replace the Panteras.
“Fifteen. 85%-90% already upgraded to Tigre III Plus category (Derby, DASH, new colour MFDs, etc). The rest undertaking the same upgrade as we speak…”It´s nice, but too small fleet.

But we don’t need more than that. We’re realistic people. We prefer to have few things, but good, modern, useful and operative… not tarmac dummies, not empty fast jets which scares no one.

“No idea. I think it’s classified…
Do you really know how many sorties your air force can generate?. I don’t think so…”
three to four a day and deployments throughout the country.

Yeah…pretty similar situation here.

“Around 90%. And it’s a great number, indeed…”
i agree, but the fleet is too small.

It’s a small country. Why should we have tenths of parked aircraft, without spares, nor proper maintenance? (like our northern neighbor…)
It’s ridiculous.
Chilean defense policies are based on disuation. Lot’s of parked, old, rusty, inoperative aircraft doesn’t disuade. And you know that.

“Condor AEW is full operative. You will see it if you go to northern Chile in Sept/Oct. (Salitre 2004)”
Unfortunately i cannot go there, maybe someday. It´s just one, as the fleet is too small, it will be necessary escorts as the aircraft is High Value Asset, two or even more aircrafts dedicated in escorting him generates less aircraft for other missions. I think it is good to acquire another AEW aircraft.

Sure we’ll buy more AEW in the future. Maybe some Erieyes?
Besides…having in mind the size of your country, the FAB fleet should be 3 times bigger…Your fleet is small and ageing. But I guess its size is according to the actual necessities of the nation, in times of regional peace. However, I think in general you’re very capable and smart people. That means you can take the most from your old and small fleet too.

“And you don’t underestimate Chilean Air Force.
Not if you don’t have the slightiest idea of what’s going on in Chile (…not to mention the myths on the “European thing” that’s in your mind…that is)”
Please tell me when i said and where i wrote that i´m underestimating Chilean AF. Come on Condor

All the time A-29. You’re underestimating the “small fleet” all the time. But I really don’t care, because yuo have demonstrated right here on this forum your lack of knowledge about Chile, as a country, and its Air Force.
Read your messages right above this lines. “small fleet, just one AEW, small fleet, old new planes, blah, blah, blah…

“(BTW…I’m still waiting for your input on which tankers and in flight refuelling capable aircraft Chile flew in the 70s…as you said earlier)”
Pls, read carefully what i wrote before

I have read it once more, but you didn’t answer my question…again.

“Of course…there’s always jaleous people who feels envy when the neighbors are doing fine… It’s human nature.”
jealous…..?????????why? because Chilean AF is doing fine? grow up my friend.

Sorry pal…but that last paragraph was not aimed at you.
I was not talking to you, brazilians…
I was talking about a guy in this forum -which is not brazilian- that has no arguments to back up his nonsense and childish “ideas”, if I can call them like that…That’s pure envy.

Regards,

Condor

Chile AF has three type of fighters (i´m not considering the A-37), F-5 tiger III, Pantera and Elkans.

…and from the next year, a fourth type will be added. The F-16 Block 50. 10-12 brand new machines, BVR capable, fitted with state of the art avionics.

How many F-5s, thirteen?

Fifteen. 85%-90% already upgraded to Tigre III Plus category (Derby, DASH, new colour MFDs, etc). The rest undertaking the same upgrade as we speak…

How many Panteras, twelve?

Thrirteen

How many Elkans, twenty-two?

Yes. Twenty two. Recently fitted with IFR probe (check Fidae 2004 pics).

From this total, 47, how many jets the AF can put in the air? 70%? 80%? 80% of serviceability is around 38 jets. You think is a good number?

Around 90%. And it’s a great number, indeed…

How many sorties the AF can generate.

No idea. I think it’s classified…
Do you really know how many sorties your air force can generate?. I don’t think so…

Is the Condor working, i mean to provide AEW for the fighters for a long period of time?

Condor AEW is full operative. You will see it if you go to northern Chile in Sept/Oct. (Salitre 2004)

Don´t underestimate Peruvian AF

And you don’t underestimate Chilean Air Force.
Not if you don’t have the slightiest idea of what’s going on in Chile (…not to mention the myths on the “European thing” that’s in your mind…that is)

..even with funding problems, they can put more jets in the air than Chilean AF in its good days.

Oh really? And how do you know this? Did you read it in a peruvian newspaper maybe?
Could you post some official data. I’m not talking about vague ideas…I’m talking of hard information.
I mean…a realistic comparative scheme?
(BTW…I’m still waiting for your input on which tankers and in flight refuelling capable aircraft Chile flew in the 70s…as you said earlier)

And I´m talking about Mirage 2000 and Mig-29, respected worldwide backed up by Su-22 and Su-25.

Sounds good in the paper A-29. But the truth is that any given magnificent plane -Mig-29, Su-27, Mirages, Sukhois, Rafales, you name it- can do little or nothing if there are no funds to mantain it, no updated weapons or systems to fit or advanced avionics to equip them.
I have nothing against peruvian pilots or it’s Air Force at all. They’re not guilty of being ruled by corrupt people, who keeps their country unstable, with amazing levels of poverty and bold under development.
Of course…there’s always jaleous people who feels envy when the neighbors are doing fine… It’s human nature.

Cheers,

Condor

Recently two Chilean F-5 pilots came to Canoas AFB to qualify on the type. I believe that there are other kinds of cooperations but, today, Chilean AF pilots are still getting their qualification here. Not a problem with that, do you have? is just a cooperation.

It’s cooperation, indeed, but the simple fact that a couple of chilean pilots visits Brazil does not means they’re all travelling all the time to your contry to qualify any given type of aicraft. Quite simple.

In the 70´s, a group of pilots from the Brazilian First fighter group, recently converted to the F-5, went to Chile to teach Chilean fighter pilots air to air refuelling. Not a problem also, did you agree. It is all about cooperation.

Bah?…I didn’t know that in the 70’s FACh had any in flight refuelling capable aircraft and tankers to do the job!!… 😀 Great news!
Are you sure you did your homework?
(Please tell us which type of chilean aircraft was and which tankers Chile had that time…)

Well, i think you need to come back to planet earth in this matter. Cruzex 2002 was a huge success for all nations involved, including Chile, and will be better this year with the participations of Peru and Venezuela (MIg29, Mirage 2000 and F-16 respectively)

But who talked about success or failure, pal? Why are you getting so nervous!? You should read better what I said and please don’t avoid the key issue here.
All I have tried to explain to you is the reason why Chile didn’t participate in Cruzex 2003. In fact, if FACh participated in Cruzex 2002 was exclusively because there was a compromise to do so. And Chile is well known in the whole world by acomplish its international compromises.

I respect your opinion but i don´t agree with.

That’s why they call this a “discussion forum”. No problem pal.

France are sending the dash-5 (doesn´t matter if its related to the bidding, Dassault knows that the battle was almost lost) which is by far more capable than the F-16s that the US will send (always F-16s from either AFRC or ANG). Lucky if the South Carolina ANG will send their jets (F-16s Block 50/52), but, i don´t believe.

Well…we’ll see this in a couple of months. Aside from mine and your opinion, Salitre 2004 will be a great exercise.

there will be here Mirage 2000s and Mig-29s from Peru (really excited) and the F-16s from Venezuela, they have 20 years experience on the jet, participations on Red Flag (twice), they are very capable. It is coming to the Argentinians with their Mirages or Skyhawks (A-4AR). And to finalize, Mirages, F-5, AMX and A-4 from Brazil.

Sounds fantastic. Take some pics to share with all of us.

Hope the Chilean AF will decide to come up and participate again, this time with the F-5s, Elkans as well as the Pantera.

I’m afraid the decision is already made. But…who knows?

“Opps…that sounds tremendously “light” and rather childish…but having in mind you are brazilian and not chilean or argentinian citizen, I understand your lack of knowledge in that subject.”
Well, this was the impression that we have and i had.

Well…you’re entitled to have your own thoughts, but that doesn’t mean they’re correct or generalized in the world, Chile or Argentina. Pehaps that’s just one of those popular myths…
In fact, you’re the first person I hear to say that, and I think it’s really funny.

And this was told to me by citizens from both nations.

Ohh…and I guess you think that that means it’s true?
C’mon A-29…be more creative.

But, i have to tell you that i knew one buddy from this forum, he is Chilean and his nickname is Wolf and he is a very nice person.

Yeah. Wolf is a very nice person, I agree! He is my friend, and he’s laughing ’bout what you’ve wrote about Chile, Argentina and Europe too… because it’s nonsense!!.

“The long disputes between argentina and Chile are related to boundaries matters, and that’s because both countries almost go to war in 1978. Argentina denied the international arbitral results that favoured Chile. The dispute was three southern islands in the southern tip of the Beagle channel. (I can email you more info if you want to learn…)”
I know that and if you remember, we have discussed this issue on the thread related to the Chilean F-16.

So..if you know and remember that A-29… then why are you inventing those rare stories about “being more european”? I really don’t understand.
I can’t imagine what kind of disputes could exist beteween two countries about being more european than the other… It’s ridiculous!
Doesn’t it sounds odd to you?
It’s so artificial!
Please, help us all and explain some facts about it. It would be great to hear the whole tale…

I tell you that 80% or more of the Brazilian population decends directly from Portugal, my family came from Portugal. As you can see, we have a very close relation with Portugal

Yeah, but you’re a south american, not european A-29.
Well…90% chileans descends from spanish, german, croatian, italian and many other nationalities, but they don’t see themselves as being European by that fact.
I have heard many brazilians see themselves as europeans…althought they live in South America as well as chileans and argentinians…
Do you really feel european A-29?

If you want to know more about that, just let me know.

Ok. I’ll keep it in mind. Thanks!

Best Regards. 😉

ok lets see… 🙂 (you too condorito :p )
fach has 1 condor, FAB has 5 erieyes, so fach is no better than FAB in that matter.

But it’s better than Peruvian Air Force, that has NONE 😉
And has no money to buy one.
Not even prepared people to operate one…

2- Mirage elkan’s and pantera’s are just sitting ducks against M2k or Mig-29, agreed?

Are you kidding?. M2Ks are just as capable as a Chilean Pantera. The sitting ducks would be M2Ks and Migs sitted in their hangars, with no spares, no modern avionics, no nothing.

3- the F-5…hhhmmm, lets see,
its ELTA is not better, at most similar performance to the N-019xx

You’re wrong. It’s far better, and you know that.
Why to deny it?

its baby BVR derby? when within firing range it will have a R-77 already blowing its nose, so…too late.

C’mon…you’re so funny!.
Derby’s actual range (as well as of the AIM-120) are classified matters, so you’re comparing things just in your wet dreams.

4- its optronics?, slightly better than the Migs (good for you son 😉 ) but where?

Bad for you kid. Facts are facts.
You can’t compare the electronics/avionic mounted on a chilean F-5E Tigre III Plus with the old useless toys on your rusted, leaking Migs.
A state of the art DASH system mounted in F-5s “slightly better” than nothing in your Mig-29?
Good joke.

an airframe (F-5) that has cockpit visibility as bad as that of the Mig-21? adding the 6g. maneoubrability limit…you dont have to be “Ungenio” to gess who’s (the Mig-29) going to be wipping your a$$ much before your F-5 gets in position to fire its python-4
5- ergonomics?

I really like this guy.
An F-5 with worst visibility than a Mig-21?? Don’t make me laugh ol’ pal…
We’re in the missile age, remember?
Your peruvian pilot will be in hell even just before sighting an F-5 (and very soon the Chilean F-16s..) with two Python 4 in his ass.

serviceability? all M2k’s are operational

Sure… I believe you.
“All” are just 1 or 2, right?

at least 11 Mig-29’s

HAHAHAHAA!!!
With luck four (4)…and better not to talk about those R-77…without maintenance equipment. They’re just nice dummies.
Who could be afraid of dummies!??!:eek:

budget?

There’s no such thing like that…i’m afraid 😎

the government just announced “officially” that the armed forces have been granted an increase and they’re authorized to spend the rest of the annual budget NOW and will receive some more, this made news last week.

The Government, the government…
Yeah…Toledo is offering his wife and all that he can to as much as people as he can…
A “president” with a public approval of 5%-10% will surely offer your armed forces Rafales and Typhoons… :p
Maybe that will raise his a$$ a little in the polls.

so more airplanes just make more targets for the Migs and M2k’s. 😎
Camaro.

Now go to sleep!!!.
You’re wetting your bed again! 😮
Keep dreaming…

1879 = 19. century
2004 = 21. century
In this special case 125 years covers three centuries.

2004 – 1879 = 125

That is 75 years less than two centuries, Holger Sens. 😉
We were talking about centuries as measuring units.
Nice try anyway… :p

Condor

Nice. Now they can start shopping for an enemy.

Distiller:
Weapons are intended not only to attack and to protect, but also to persuade. That’s the case of Chile.
And the results are very good.

I made the mistake not to write exactly in years, but 125 years or 200 years is long ago anyway.

A quite remarkable mistake A-29. 200 years ago Chile, as well as many other american countries, was still trying to get independent from Spain…

If Chile incorporated officially these territories, based on what?

Based on the principles of war. A war that Chile didn’t wanted. A war that Chile won. I think you’re not getting the whole point. It was Peru and Bolivia that signed a secret pact to declare the war to Chile and fight against Chile. Chile defeated both nations.
The actual boundaries were confirmed freely by all the involved parties (Chile and Bolivia) in 1904. What does not make any sense is to deny that 1904 treaty today, violating and not knowing what’s been signed ans sealed a century before.

So, Bolivia had sea territory in the past.

Bolivia used to acces the sea long ago, buy that doesn’t mean in any terms they “own” those territories of the coastline…

I agree with you that Bolivia is unstable, a corrupt country etc…but, the claim makes sense according to history. we know that they will not get anything, but, make sense.

It can’t make sense to forget what you have promised to accomplish, like a peace treaty based in clear boundaries and responsibilities, both of which Chile nas never failed to honour.

Condor