Distiller,

Is not Peru, Chile has, at least, in the past some troubles with Argentina. In the eighties, before the Falklands, both almost went to war because of the Straight of Beagle, bordering the two countries.

A-29, you are not well informed. It wasn’t because the Straight of Beagle. It was because Argentina denied the results of an international and neutral arbitration for the possesion of three chilean islands near the Beagle channel, three islands they were claiming as theirs. Nevertheless, the argentinians (and chileans, indeed) accepted to go ahead for the international arbitration, but when they knew the result (logically) favored Chile, they rejected it. That was the origin for the tensions in 1978.

Bolivia, two centuries ago, lost its coast to Chile and recently, on a meeting between South American leaders, Bolivian President have requested to Chilean government the part of the sea that originally was part of Bolivian territory. The answer was a tremendous NO.
Regards,

The war was not two centuries ago, A-29. It was 125 years ago, and Bolivia never had sovereing titles over the Pacific Ocean coast nor a territory on their posession in that area. Thus, Bolivia never has sovereing access to the Pacific Ocean. (You should read about the formation of the South American states in the 19th century to understand this…)
As for the “part of the sea that originally was part of Bolivia”, well A29…there are some misundersandings here again too.
There was chilean people living and working there for decades and Chile officially incorporated these territories after Bolivia and Peru declared the war in 1879 (both northern countries signed a secret pact to fight against Chile, before the war even started), war that Chile finally won in 1884.
You surely know that Chile and Bolivia signed a Peace Treaty in 1904. All the differences between the two countries -geographics and boundaries too- were sealed and fixed by this treaty.

Current bolivian claimings over the Pacific basically obeys to the unstable political scenario of the country, plagued with corruption and political injustice and theft, where the nationalists (and vague) claimings are the sole factor of unity in that nation, blinded by false promises of progress and better times, made by their political leaders, headed by their president.

Condor

They reported that Vienna will buy 40 MiG-29s

Oh yeah? Boy…that’s awful!!!:eek:
Would you give me the issue number and date please F-18burger??
Thanks in advance!

Condor 🙂

I wouldn’t be so sure Camaro… especially on the last part of your statement.

do you mean…we hate each other’s guts???
because what i ment was (by experience) that chilean and peruvians once they get to know each other…we become real friends and of course there are some radical a-holes on both sides, but just a few. 😎

Hate? WOW! who talked about hate Camaro??…
So…if there’s no real friendship…then it automatically becomes hate? That’s a very extremist point of view!!!. I think both countries must walk a real long path for true integration, despite those radical *ssholes.

so…you say… “the gap will never be filled?” no matter what FAP gets or does???

WOW…Did I say that? I didn’t notice… 😮 Check my statements above. 😉 (or perhaps are your own thoughts?)
The gap will be filled as soon as Peru spend some dollars upgrading it’s ageing fleet, just like Chile is doing it right now…

… But, if the f-5 was that effective against the Mig, then there would be no reason to get the f-16, aint it? and your f-16 is still on paper, my Mig is here to stay.

The reason behind the purchasing of the F-16s is the chilean need for replacing and old fleet of A-37s and Mirages that soon will end its service. Nothing more, nothing less Camaro, and you know that.
The integration of Derbies and Phytons in F-5s and F-16s is just a single part in an effort for a true integration of the FACh fleet units.

by the way, the arrival of the derby to fach is old news, everybody knows of its existence on your arsenal for about 2 years. 😀
Camaro.

Tell it to to the people who still thinks Peruvian Air Force is the best in Latin America for the sole fact that they believe it’s the only one who has BVR capability… 🙂

Condor…
we will never see a pic of a f-5 firing a derby as well as you will never see a pic of a Mig-29 firing the R-77

Camaro…
I’m afraid it was Cazador who was asking for pictures…not me. 🙂

on the other hand, you have seen already the Mig-29 showing the R-77 on static display.

yeah…they look cool, but a firing sequence would be much better. :p
Again…it was Cazador who was requesting some pictures…

another point, the only better thing about the f-5+ would be the dash system (slightly better than the actual system on our Mig) and the f-16… you make it sound BIG, yes its big, but you seem to be under the impression that FAP will do nothing to match that, or that there’s nothing FAP can do to match those chilean temporary advantages…

I’m, sorry Camaro, but those are your impressions…not mine 😉
Anyway, the Chilean F-16s Block 50M + Derby will be more than a match for any peruvian Mig-29…and that’s a fact…and it’s BIG…indeed! 🙂

i suggest you “think again” 😉

And I suggest you “don’t underestimate an air force by the simple fact that you think its neighbor is the ‘only one’ with BVR missile capability”. That’s simply basic…and wrong.
I’m sure your scope would be wider if you elaborate such comparisons based on smarter parameters…
And you would be surprised… 😉

Condor

PS: Ohh…

… both chilean and peruvian military’s have in common a deep lack of thrust in each other, although chilean and peruvian civilians behave in a much different manner

I wouldn’t be so sure Camaro… especially on the last part of your statement. 😎

I don’t know but the Mig-29A/S is still a much better Aircraft than any F-5

Almost any F-5, Srbin…
We’re talking about BVR combat as being the decisive advantage of the FAP Mig-29 + R-77…that’s what you’re trying to say??
Well…you surely don’t know neither that chilean F-5E Tigre III Plus have been fitted with DASH (Display And Sight Helmet), and the fleet is fully compatible with Python III and IV missiles (plus the mentioned Derby). Besides, the latest upgrades included new cockpit colour MFDs (liquid crystal), new datalink and a new mission computer.
I think you are clrearly underestimating this little good old aircraft, and the integration of a whole set of systems, including logically the Condor AEW.

Anyway Srbin, I still want to know why -as you have stated- Chile’s F-16 Block 50M with Derby BVR wouldn’t challenge the “few” Mig-29s with R-77??. C’mon!…Chilean Falcons will be fitted with the latest Modular Mission Computer ALQ-211(V)4 advanced integrated defensive integrated suit, Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS), F110-GE-129 engine and APG-68(V)9 Radar…and CFTs. How this compares with the specs of Peruvian Mig-29s??. You surely know the answer…

Ohh..and don’t forget the Elkans and Panteras…and the inflight refuelling capability of all the types flying with FACh… 😉

Cazador…well…can you show me a genuine picture of a peruvian Mig-29 firing an R-77????? You surely have a bunch of them. Show us just a couple. Thanks in advance! 🙂