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November 30, 2011 at 10:13 pm in reply to: Gripen for Switzerland #2313926

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Well if the rumours about the operational evaluation of the 3 planes are to be beleived, the Gripen isn’t doing that well compared to the Hornet.

Link

well first of all C/D was in the evaluation not E/F, bigg difference. Second, Gripen C/D have shown very good results against Finnish F-18 amongst others.
It would be nice to know exactly what bothers the nejsayers.

November 30, 2011 at 9:31 pm in reply to: Gripen for Switzerland #2314021

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:rolleyes: I forgot something…

BRAVO !!! to the Swedes

thanks Tmor!
hopefully we see a french break in the mother of all deals.

November 30, 2011 at 9:29 pm in reply to: Gripen for Switzerland #2314030

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Which does not exist as of yet.

@ bgnewf : they also said that they want the same plane to replace the hornet later on, which is why I don’t get it entirely.

F-18 F/A is no problem for the gripen E/F to replace, were in capability do you see any problem?

November 30, 2011 at 8:59 pm in reply to: Gripen for Switzerland #2314075

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There are no guarantees the Gripen (if really bought) will be upgraded to the NG standard which by the way is still in development. If Switzerland decide to go for it, they will have to share the development cost and might want to wait for another customer to order the NG standard so as to be sure of return on their investment.

The only plus I see is actual cost (without upgrade), and compatibility with the F 5 infrastructure because of their similar size.

Everything else including the AESA radar, lower RCS… are still a big MAYBE.

they said E/F on the pressconference..
this is the same versions as sweden is buying next.

November 30, 2011 at 8:42 pm in reply to: Gripen for Switzerland #2314090

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Nice. However, seems to be quite a bit of work left before a deal is signed, including a possible public referendum. Ergo => still chanche for Rafale and others to a secure deal.

Wonder if it will include the RCS reduction measures proposed for Gripen E/F (Redesigned air intakes etc.)

E/F versions is defined as future swedish spec. (and swiss spec?) at the moment this is not totaly clear. Due to Swedish AF/Swiss AF not defined it, but Saab has..thou the NG program 🙂 The NG developmentwork is defined of the ” general market will”. More power, AESA etc..
This means however that the specwork of both AF:s must be done faster, than earlier antisipated.

November 30, 2011 at 8:31 pm in reply to: Italian AEW competition #2314116

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We’re talking about the Erieye today on current platforms (EMB-145 and SAAB 340).
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Saab 2000 is on sale, not 340 (only used on 1 gen Erieye Ps890 for sweden, where the operators was on the ground via datalink, some of the systems of which is sold as training platforms to UAE)

November 30, 2011 at 8:23 pm in reply to: Italian AEW competition #2314119

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P.S.: regarding the G550 CAEW’s operational ceiling:
http://trishulgroup.blogspot.com/2009/04/g-550-caew-c-profiled.html
(source: IAI Elta)

this is a good source, its har do get hold of elta presentations.

November 30, 2011 at 8:16 pm in reply to: Gripen for Switzerland #2314162

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Ah so sad it could not win in India. Atleast this will help SAABs future.

its not over until its over 🙂

November 30, 2011 at 8:14 pm in reply to: Gripen for Switzerland #2314164

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A really good break for Gripen NG Development. This also means Sweden is bound to buy atleast 10 new A/C in E/F versions.
So for Saab this deal means 22 + 11(optional swiss follow-on) and 10 E/F Swedish fighters.

November 29, 2011 at 10:27 pm in reply to: Italian AEW competition #2315185

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Yeah… a small missile (frontal RCS ≤ -10 dBsm) detected from 350 km?

Erieye isn’t better than any existing airborne radar.

Forget it.

“Forget it” is probably the winning argument. 😀
In my mind “350km small missile” is better than “>370km for fighter sized”
Thats the only data we got, so face the fact.

November 29, 2011 at 9:39 pm in reply to: Italian AEW competition #2315200

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Do you really think Erieye can detect a small missile at a 350 km range?

Why doesn’t SAAB boast a such formidable performance?

And why fighters on the graph are only represented between 300 and 400 km from the radar?

read instead of looking at schematic grafics and you find it

November 29, 2011 at 8:27 pm in reply to: Italian AEW competition #2315272

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As I said on page 2, EMB-145H’s operational ceiling is 30.000 feet (http://www.haf.gr/en/mission/weapons/emb-145.asp).

I’ve just demonstrated its publicized range does not depend on radar horizon: it’s a radar limitation.

SAAB’s brochure says the radar can detect a fighter at about 350 km which is far within radar horizon.

Even if we consider a 20.000 feet altitude, SAAB does not say a sea level fighter target (among other things, it’s not so on the brochure).

What make you believe Erieye’s range is limited by horizon?

this is your source:

The sea coverage is only limited by the horizon, which is around 350 km (190 nm). Within this area, everything from fighter aircraft, hovering helicopters and ships to small missiles can be detected and pinpointed.

This means targets at sealevel and this means also that this is not a limitation at altitude. So if you can detect a small sea skimming missile at 350km, shouldnt it be possible to see fighter at altitude futher away?

November 29, 2011 at 4:32 pm in reply to: Italian AEW competition #2315448

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Oh, greedy money-grubbing Elta!:rolleyes:

Have you considered that maybe because the capability to scan in both L and S bands may bring added benefits?

For the last time, some here seem to have a hard time accepting that Elta haven’t been twiddling their thumbs while Saab advertised new ‘generations’ with Erieye. The G550 CAEW is their third-generation AWACS.

yes i definitly considered that, but i have still no answer why. So i will need to ponder on that for while..without the help from my friends 😉

Yes, and G550 is 3 gen. at sell i can give you that. Even thou i have no clue. But that does not help us, no direct data on any generation of G550 exept X gen have better “range” than 200nm. No specific target, no specific altitude, no spec gen. etc.

November 28, 2011 at 10:14 pm in reply to: Italian AEW competition #2315819

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Surely SAAB is promoting the latest version, and I think Pakistan ordered it (only) five years ago.

As i said this is gen 3, and have been selling this for quite some time now. It would be hell for saab if they just been sitting around all this time doing nothing, while the competion gets better on what they are doing.
Ever wonder why UAE buys low budget old Saab 340 kinds for training and not new ones at once?

November 28, 2011 at 9:29 pm in reply to: Italian AEW competition #2315831

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SAAB itself (http://www.saabgroup.com/Global/Documents%20and%20Images/Air/Sensor%20Systems/ERIEYE/ERIEYE%20EN%20Print.pdf): about 350 km.

Jane’s (http://articles.janes.com/articles/Janes-Avionics/Erieye-AEW-C-Airborne-Early-Warning–Control-mission-system-radar-Sweden.html): approximately 350 km.

D.I. Daily (http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/sweden-finalizes-saab-2000-aewc-contract-with-pakistan-02377/): approximately 330 km.

Globalsecurity (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/erieye.htm): effective 330 km.

])

And also the 350km range for sea skimming missiles, not fighter at altitude, thats 450km
You need to compare apples with apples.

Which are what generation?
And which one are they selling now?
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