Because it operates in both L and S band.
So, any thoughts on why they even bother using two radars in one?
and make it, problably, double the cost?
For a target flying at 30 feet (a cruise missile incoming from sea) radar horizon of an airplane flying at 50.000 feet (G550 CAEW) is 520 km.
An airplane at 30.000 feet (EMB-145H AEW&C) sees the same target at 410 km (so the 350 km range isn’t due to Earth’s curve).
Because it operates in both L and S band.
)
And i thought EMB-145 ceiling was 37000ft…
BTW, I’m curious as to why people now believe antenna size has nothing to do with radar range when threads right here like the MMRCA ones should have made its relevance abundantly clear by now.
Bigger size = More T/R modules and/or room for larger, more powerful transmitters = Better range if required
.
first,”people” think that size of a TRM isnt a problem in S or L-band, so you can have 2000 or 200, the emitted watt of those is what matters.
In recieving mode the size can amplify(or gain if you like) the reciever signal, but this also depends much of the rest of the antenna layout. so bigger isnt always better. so if you have less layout restrictions you can make a better antenna, thats beat a bigger antenna.
For X-band fighter nose radar thats another story. first the antenna area can be very small due to the higher frequencies. So for a certain area there is a certain amount of antennas at optimum (simplified).
So if Rafale is using 800 or 1000 TRM does not matter, its the total emitted watt that still matter for range.
If every Rafale TRM crank 10W thats 10kW for a 1000TRM antenna.
If every TRM instead crank 20W on a 800TRM antenna thats 16kW.
The big problem for a small nose plane is the direct cooling of the TRMs. The cooling relates much to the diameter of the antenna area.
BTW the folk who keep referring to how this is ‘gen 3’ of Erieye should also keep in mind that IAI/Elta are fielding their own third-generation AEWC system. The CAEW/Eitam has a new dual-mode radar(EL/M-2085) that operates in both L and S band. And probably newer onboard electronics, backend and so on…
Good info!
it would be nice to see some more data. Why dual mode?
I dont expect anything without data, but i expect a newer system to be better in general.
Number of TRMs doesnt determine range due the systems are so different. But no of TRM is always a determinant in precision.
Total output and reciever sensitivity are range determinants.
For the Ereye, many sources give a 330-350 km detection range versus a fighter sized target, which is confirmed by SAAB: http://www.saabgroup.com/Global/Documents%20and%20Images/Air/Sensor%20Systems/ERIEYE/ERIEYE%20EN%20Print.pdf.
Note: in past, swedish radars detection performances often referred to a 5 sqm RCS target.
Regarding the Phalcon, in 2009 the singaporean MoD quoted the G550 CAEW as having a longer detection range than the E-3C (http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_events/nr/2009/feb/19feb09_nr.html) which, in turn, utilizes an APS-138 radar system.
The Naval Insitute guide to world naval weapons systems (http://books.google.it/books?id=4S3h8j_NEmkC&pg=PA212&dq=maximum+range+is+250+nm,+and+aps-138+can&hl=it&ei=wsXSTvq5HorFtAbw-7SvDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=maximum%20range%20is%20250%20nm%2C%20and%20aps-138%20can&f=false) says the APS-138 can track a cruise missile at a range of 150 nautical miles: if that cruise missile represents the same cruise missile target mentioned by Globalsecurity in a description of US AWACS radar system (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/stealth-aircraft-rcs.htm), as it is very likely to do, it has a radar cross section of 1 square meter; the APS-138 could track a 1 sqm RCS target at 227 km and a 5 sqm target at 340 km, so. Even if you don’t consider this a tracking performance, consider it’s exceeded by the EL/W-2085.
Yes: Phalcon sees farther than Erieye.
Can you provide better data?
Same SAAB source actually tells you that at ground level (sea) it “track”/surveil small missiles at 350km(horizon limited). at altitude it surveil/track? fighters at 450km. i actually doesnt find you 330-350km source.
And yes this seems to me better than “more than 370km” for fighters, depends how you see it.
Note also this is gen 3 of Erieye.
Thanks for the source for G550, this data seems hard to get the hands on.
370km may be the Horizon for the G550(fly higher), and this critical for groundlevel.
In any case the number of T/R modules in the two pods can be increased if necessary.
soon enough you got a awacs size array in x-band format(not the best for the case) and the prize of a AWACS.
The G550 CAEW is way better!
It:
– flies higher
– flies longer
– looks fartherP.S.: without considering that’s faster!
whaat? only in your mind if looks farther. Newest gen. of Erieye are extremly good.
do you have any data on the G550?
FSS Radomes used by many modern fighters are only transparent at certain frequencies, so shape still matters.
even certain polarites.
i’m not too convinced about mounting a radar on a prop plane with all the potential interference.. but then again Erieye could be mounted on an Embraer!
curious to how the erieye compares to the G550 AEW
depends of the generation
The APG-80 has a reported range of 250-300km for fighter-sized targets and upto the radar horizon for ground/naval targets. For a helo-based AEW solution this is fairly high. For comparison, the Ka-31’s E-801 radar can only detect fighter targets at 150-200km.
Anyone have figures for the Searchwater-2000 in the Sea King AEW helos?
“Fightersized” is still based on f-16 ballpark of 1m^2. This means AWACS needs to sharping its teeths in the near future. A AWACS buy today, needs 0,1m^2 in the same distance to be safe. Also needs endurance/altitude and speed(for getting out of a situation). This is more than than a AgustaWestland AW101 can manage. Maybe a tiltrotor can be better?
Still my opinon thou.
Range seems to me very weak for an awacs.
gripen has a APU system for power instant redundance
F-16 doesn’t have FADEC? I’m surprised!
as for Gripen attrition rates. 7 airframes lost out of 178 Gripen’s produced
out of those 7, I guess about 2 of these could be argued as being lost due to engine related issues.
178 produced for SweAF (of 204)
28 SAAF
6 Thai AF (6 more to come)
5 is lost, none due to engine failure.
a HUD picture as reliable source for this thread?
first lay out the basic data and then compare avionics, networks etc.