Bubi Hartmann (Source Tolliver and Constable)
Bubi Lent (Source The Lent Papers)
Sorry, exact references not to hand. There are plenty more German ones if we want to go down that route.
WZ 862
For those not in the South East but who have SKY
Try channel 963 if you want to see the Inside Out programme on the Dornier. A bullet hole can be seen in one prop blade
WZ862
Bee Beamont 1948
With kind thanks to Twin Otter 23 for the reference, Bee Beamont as an EE Test Pilot went supersonic in 1948 in an F86.
http://www.airsceneuk.org.uk/oldstuff/2005/bee/bee.htm
WZ 862
Budworth and Pickmere Crashes?
Thinking on a bit more re post from Anon, both Budworth Mere and Pickmere were once one united post glacial lake sitting in (for Cheshire) a prominent valley but only about 50 feet deep. It would be possible to make a run on Budworth from west to east and stay low for a couple of miles over the low land between the lakes and pull out about 4 miles away, east of Pickmere. You would not be able to see an aircraft do this from ground level, certainly not Northwich, Marbury Lane or the Canal towpath. The latter two places are possibly the closest one could get on the south side as a civilian. You could not see from Budworth Mere south side itself as this was off limits as it was the army camp from 1940-1948. You could only see from northside by walking quite a long way from Northwich.
It may be that by not pulling up as I have described, and staying low, you could believe some one had gone in.
I have not heard anything from local knowledge about any crash in Budworth Mere. I cannot speak for Pickmere. The only known local crash was the Albemarle in Hartford. I have not looked at any Barracuda crash/disposal/SOC data in posting this reply.
WZ862
Barracudas (?) at Budworth Mere
“The soldiers fired mortar bombs into the mere. The Fleet Air Arm at Appleton had a target in the middle of the mere and George and his pals used to love watching them.”
Budworth Mere is located right next to the former army camp of Marbury Hall. British, Polish and American soldiers used it for training so there may be other ordnance in there as this extract from a local history reminiscences site says.
Budworth Mere is one of the largest areas of open water in Cheshire.
The lake is quite deep in places. I am told the masts of totally capsized Enterprises do not touch the bottom. The lake is shared by various bodies, including the local sailing and angling clubs and is also fronted by a Cheshire Wildlife Reserve for bitterns and Marbury Park, administered by Cheshire West and Chester Council, as well as the land of several farmers.
Some of the (none aviation) history of the site in WW2 is on the website entry of the Friends of Anderton and Marbury.
WZ862
I have had the benefit of having to hand “British Military Aircraft Serials 1912-1969” by Bruce Robertson and it appears from a reading of this that it was predominantly the Hawker Hart that was produced by Armstrong Whitworth. (Sorry Bob, I hope no offence is taken) Most other aircraft manufacturers, besides Hawker’s, produced some versions of the 1930’s Hawker biplane family at some stage to reduce the load on Hawker’s and ensure aircraft were available in sufficient numbers for the late 1930’s hurried re-expansion of the RAF.
K3855-3904 were AW aircraft as were K3955-3972, 4297-8 and 4437-4495. A large number of this latter batch were sold to the SAAF.
K4886-5052 a batch of 167 had one aircraft sold on to South Africa. K6415-6550 was the final AW batch of 146. In addition to those supplied to the SAAF, there may well have been others transferred to southern Africa as part of the training programmes during the war.
RAF Cosford
Didn’t they scrap plenty of Spitfires, Lancasters and Mosquitos at Cosford?
WZ862
For those who want to read more there is “Sophie Scholl and the White Rose” by Annette Dumbach and Jud Newborn ISBN 1-85168-474-3 One World Oxford 2006. (First published in Germany 1986)
Flight Lieutenant Bert Webster, I think ex Wellington Sgt Pilot, if I remember correctly, later CFI 1970-71, University of Wales Air Squadron St Athan. After a heavy session in the mess one night with the sprogs, he was seen the following morning undertaking a met flight along the line of the main runway about 10 feet of the ground, aircraft inverted.
Moggy C,
The reference to a commando group seems editorial rather than original text. Most of the editorial throughout the diary is in bold. As such, maybe it is the editor’s supposition. I do not read elsewhere in this diary that there were any warlike practice events on the ground. Without going through my library for references, it was often on RAF bases, a ploy to occupy active minds of boisterous aircrew, to put on base defence exercises, dingy practice , “home run” cross country orienteering and evade base security. If I remember correctly weapons were issued sometimes.
WZ862
Lerche published his book “Luftwaffe Test Piiot” Janes 1980, translated from its 1977 German predecessor in which this test report is not included but there is a written recollection of his last flight in the Do335. He recalled it as “an unusually powerful aircraft with exceptional flying qualities.”
I managed to pick up my copy from the second hand section of the bookshop at RAFM Cosford, a lovely read with descriptions of flying amongst many others, the Lancaster, Wellington and Tempest. His test report on the Lavochkin La-5 is an appendix in the book.
Lerche was eventually put in command of E 2 Beute, the Captured Aircraft Section at Rechlin. In some ways, his career path , from a German perspective in test flying, seemed to mirror somewhat, that of our own Captain Eric “Winkle” Brown.
SWAMPYRV,
Remember that returning bombers could have jettisoned items, including shell cases, to reduce weight when in trouble.
You may find that the RAF museum at Cosford has an example of the message pick up system on display fitted to their Hawker Hind. I have seen it but do not have any photos of my own, but here is a link which shows the gear, as you say, fitted to the axle of the aircraft. I’m sure you’ll find plenty of posted photos of this machine, which was recovered from Afghanistan many years ago and is displayed in Afghani colours.
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/collections/hawker-hind-afgha
Good luck, WZ862
Kev,
I have only joined the forum after you posted this. I have been asked to help a close friend publish on the web photographs from the collection of his long deceased father which include Donibristle Horsley’s, and the 1934 Air Race at Singapore, Egypt Audaxes, and France 1940. It seems 100, 208 and 218 Squadrons may have been the units he served in up to the fall of France. There seems to be a remarkable correlation in the 1950’s service lives of these photographers/collectors. I too hope with my friend to publish this collection as a tribute to his father.
I celebrate the retrieval of the Dornier which now is in safe hands. It is unique (if I recall correctly) in that it is the only bomber of its kind and the only example in the RAFM’s diverse Luftwaffe collection at Cosford and Hendon that is a genuine Battle of Britain German veteran. After we are all gone, newer generations will be able to see an aircraft from a battle that was as critical as any that this country has ever fought. If we had lost, when we were right on our own, I dread to think what would have happened. My sense of history has been so heightened by standing on the decks of HMS Victory, HMS Cavalier, HMS Plymouth, seeing S for Sugar, standing at Dover at the spot where Churchill looked over to Calais in 1940, sitting in the cockpit of a Spitfire, seeing R4118. That’s enough from me. There is nothing like the real thing. Hats off to the RAFM.
WZ862