Night Fighter by C F Rawnsley and Robert Wright Chapter 18 discusses the use of Mosquito XV’s to intercept high flying Ju86reconnaissance aircraft. These were in part done by John Cunningham on “day release” from his night fighter job.
WZ862
Fiesler Storch(?) north bound west of Northwich Cheshire about 1530 22 April
Both these crashes, if your dates arecorrect should be covered in the forthcoming Luftwaffe Crash Archive Vol 2 edited by Nigel Parker.
http://www.wingleader.co.uk/category-s/1826.htm
You could also try the publication The Battle of Britain: Then and Now. Unfortunately I do not have a copy.
In the meantime a real aviation historian on this forum might be able to help further.
More detail on Starfish sites
Laurie Brettingham’s book “Royal Air Force Beam Benders No 80 (Signals) Wing 1940-1945” Midland Publishing 1999 Chapters 11 and 12 has some wonderful detail on this almost unknown subject. 80 Wing controlled the decoy effort. The book chapters are a good summary and most helpfully well referenced with further reading.
WZ862
3 Missing Spitfires in India (nearly in Burma)
The text from page 19 of Peter Vacher’s book “Hurricane R4118” referring to 1996.
“We were warmly welcomed by Wing Commander Joseph Sekhar at the Bihta Air Force Base near Patna. …There was great excitement as we were driven down the massive runway to greet two microlights whose pilots were flying from from Delhi to Calcutta. We had singularly failed to find any trace of a Hurricane at the air base but one of the microlight pilots told us of three Spitfires he had personally seen in the jungle adjacent to Burma. He suggested we might like to contact the 8th Assam Rifles Regiment in Shillong from where we could lead an expedition of recovery. O adventurous reader, the Spitfires are certainly still there! However, for your proection you might also like to take the 12th and 15th Assam Rifles with you.”
I have done a thread check and I can’t find this one posted before. Happy hunting. I have got us as close to Burma as I can.
Sky Tiger – The Story of Sailor Malan, written by Norman L R Franks, recently republished by Crecy (which I should have checked originally) introduces the Magister as the escaping aircraft. It also indicates that Sailor Malan was upset 74 Squadron were not allowed to rescue their own CO S/L White, who had received a bullet in the radiator while attacking a Henschel 126.
Malan’s upset was with Station Commander at Hornchurch who had ordered the method of escape, rather than 54 Squadron. On balance I think I would rather go with Al Deere’s 1959 personal recollection that it was a Master rather than the 1980 account.
Both Reckless Rat and I have given you different aircraft types. Deere’s text mentions “Master” several times, but could be a typo/memory lapse by either the author or Wiki.
Miles Master 54 Squadron
Hi,
Have a look at Nine Lives Al Deere Chapter 4, Rescue at Calais Marck. “Prof” Leathart, Flight Commander flew the Master, escorted by Al Deere and Johnny Allen. They rescued the CO of 74 Squadron who had force landed with engine trouble at Calais Marck. May 23 1940
Sabre at Rechlin?
Jayce,
If there is a Sabre at Rechlin, (sorry I have no photo) it could have come from either a Typhoon or Tempest. In June 1944, Hans-Werner Lurche flew a Typhoon at Rechlin. This he described in passing on p 121 of his book, Luftwaffe Test Pilot , Jane’s, 1980, ISBN 0 7106 0031 3. He does not identify the aircraft.
However, On Special Missions – The Luftwaffe’s Research and Experimental Squadrons 1923 -1945, Smith, Creek and Petrick, p92-93, 2003,Classic Books ISBN 9 781903 223338, shows EJ 956 ex 486 squadron in colour profile and photographs at Rechlin in June 1944, but the Sabre is not likely to be from it as it crashed near Harburg in July 1944. A photo in Lerche’s book shows JP 961 JX-U recovered by rail after force landing, it says, in 1943. Perhaps that is the donor engine referred to by your colleague.
Lurche then flew the Tempest V and this is described pp 127- 131. He seemed to enjoy it, but again did not identify the aircraft.
Unfortunately Lerche’s book is not indexed and so there might be more within its covers than I have related. (Incidentally this book reveals Lurche’s part in August 1944 by flying a Lancaster at night over Berlin to determine by experiment how to combat “Window.”)
Jean-Louis Roba’s book, Foreign Planes in the Service of the Luftwaffe, Pen and Sword , 2009, ISBN 184884081-0 shows in photograph, (no page number) JR 319, “G” (he says from being recovered fairly intact, after a crash. The book then says without evidence that the “German Air Force seems to have tested at least two Typhoons.”
JP845 of 485 Squadron was also captured (photograph in Roba no page number, but says lost near Abbeville 21 December 1943) but there is no evidence of its flying in German hands.
Roba also shows a Beaufighter in flight in German colours, p 140, a captured Mosquito on a beach, undercarriage down. This may be the aircraft in colour profile and photographs in Smith, Creek and Petrick, p82-83. This aircraft was captured before 3 September 1943.
WZ862
While I cannot help you directly, you may find the Hawker Audax a useful source of research as they may have been fitted in this way also. I think (memory is not good)that there is one Hawker Audax airframe in the UK for rebuild, they may have information.
“There seems to be some underlying suggestion however, that they’d have faired well, buried. ”
There is absolutely no intention to imply this Snoopy7422. I apologise if you perceived this. I wanted to give as balanced a view as I could of what the crates were originally for. I decided not to develop the theme into the realms of chemical degredation of airframes and biological attack of buried woodas that would be too speculative on my part.
You continue:
“This is very doubtful, but we can live in hope”. I do agree.
Thoughts on Spitfires in Crates
It is down to the previous work of Mark 12; the scattering of photographs on the web and those culled from Imperial War Museum photo archives that there is a good start on this topic.
Transport crates were first of all designed to protect as well as transport their valuable cargo. The transport element required export crated aircraft to be lifted and lowered on to lorries by crane at the specialist aircraft packing units. The crates then went by road to ports, having to survive the stress of those journeys. The crates were then lifted either by port cranes or ship’s derricks and travelled as deck cargo or in the hold. The lifting of such loads at ports would expose the crates to wind loads and swaying forces, collisions with other objects while being moved and to survive stresses in three dimensions. If on deck they would be subject to the effects of weather and corrosive sea water. A crated aircraft in a ship sailing to India in convoy would typically take 3-4 weeks of sometimes violent pitch, roll and yaw.
The crates would need to be robust and in many ways were the predecessors of the modern freight container. They were lifting equipment in their own right, capable of supporting themselves and their contents. That would give them, in their design, the need for considerable inherent strength. You can see in the first photograph posted by Mark 12 at #4 above of the Mark V111 being unloaded at Casablanca in 1943 that, as Mark 12 says, the wing crate has lifting eyes and shackles fitted about one quarter of the way in from each end and signs of reinforcement travelling downwards from each of these lifting points that should extend underneath the crate. The wooden reinforcement and packing of the wings shows that the wings at least were given double protection in some directions. (Accidentally,but probably not an Air Ministry original specification, the vertical alignment of the wings in crates might also permit ground pressures to be resisted better if buried in Burma.) However, the burial of the aircraft may have been done in a haphazard fashion given the circumstances and the crates may not be buried in the correct alignment. If they were pushed, possibly down hill, by machine, into an old watercourse they will not have been treated as kindly as normal. The two photographs at #4 also may reveal differences in crating design; numbers of crates used per aircraft or loading configuration/content. The tail has been removed from the V111; the Vc has the tail attached. There is a video collage of crated aircraft photo stills at
http://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/spitfires-being-crated-pictures-video.html.
Bruce Robertson’s book Spitfire p95 (Harleyford 1961) shows a 136 squadron aircraft in a crate similar to #4 photo 1 being moved along a Cocos Island road in 1945. I think the squadron was already operational before its move to the Cocos, and the crates might be re-used from their original export function from Britain The crate is chocked at an angle suggesting they had no crane to off load it from its trailer, but were maybe using an early fork truck. Otherwise it’s not clear why it was eccentrically placed on a trailer. Nevertheless it shows the physical abuse these crates had to withstand to ensure safe arrival of the contents.
For the intrepid researcher in funds or close to London (or a TV researcher who wants to help us all) I believe there is in the Imperial War Museum some film of a 136 Squadron aircraft being uncrated on the Cocos Islands in 1945
http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1060028994
Below is the IWM catalogue description.
“Reel 4: Men at work building a road in the jungle. Two lorries approach. A jeep drives along the road. Various shots of bulldozers felling trees, clearing undergrowth, and leveling ground. A lorry (probably a Leyland Retriever) tows a trailer loaded with a large crate. A crane lowers a crate onto a trailer. The trailer is marked ‘136 Sqdn’. Various shots of the lorry and trailer on the road. The lorry parks up and the crate is hoisted off. A caterpillar tractor named ‘Beryl’ towing a scraper. Two tractors pass each other; one of them tows a trailer in which a hydraulic ram pushes loose earth onto the ground. Two men operate a large chainsaw which they use to chop up a palm tree trunk. More footage of the chainsaw. A church service conducted in the open air. Palm trunks serve as pews and the chaplain, despite the remote location, appears to be wearing full vestments. Men on their knees in prayer. The chaplain kneels in front of the cross on an altar made of small rocks. A crate marked ‘136 Sqdn’ being opened. The fuselage of a Spitfire Mk VIII, covered in a tarpaulin, is unloaded. The Spitfire’s tail assembly (minus the rudder) is carried away. Men pitching a tent. A man hammering in tent pegs with a mallet. A Spitfire fuselage, missing its wings and engine cowling is held up by a crane. Airmen position a rest under the nose of the aircraft and a second rest under the tail. (Aircraft is Spitfire Mk VIII MT567). The wings are fitted to a second Spitfire (MT962). A Spitfire fuselage is towed out of a crate by a jeep. A four-bladed propeller is fitted. Close-up of the propeller.”
I have no financial or any other interests in the extraneous sources I have used.
I wonder if anyone out there has drawings or descriptions of the specifications for export packing of Spitfires who can add more?
Another source of evidence you might wish to consider is the interrogation reports of prisoners as well as the secret recordings of prisoners that were made. A book has just been published (I have no interest other than academic in the book) “Soldaten” by Sonke Neitzel and Harald Welzer. This book is heavily based on secret recordings of German and Italian prisoners, looking at the culture, perceptions and prejudices of soldiers, including airmen and ground crews and shows what you might be able to find, in general, for your specialism. I think Neitzel has written another book on high level intelligence overheard from conversations of very senior officers previously.
According to Martin Middlebrook’s Introduction to “The Everlasting Arms -The War Memoirs of Air Commodore John Searby DSO DFC” Searby was the first master bomber when he directed the bombing at Peenemunde on 17 August 1943. Chapter eight of the book describes the preparation for the raid and the deputy master bombers W/C Johnny Fauquier and W/C John White. A “dry run” for Peenemunde was the 12 July 1943 raid to Turin where Searby was given the role of “master of ceremonies” so named by his AOC AVM Don Bennett. This raid is described too in the book which was published by William Kimber in 1988. ISBN 07183 0680 5.