Originally posted by SerbPVO
One, TV crews didn’t get everywhere. A lot of Macedonians reported incidents in their own country, when something crashed and the Macedonian/US military imidiatelly cordoned off the area and didn’t allow reporters to check out what happend.

In Tuzla(Bosnia), where there is a major airfield, there was a recorded incident of an F-117 “Stealth” crash-landing.

By the way, some ( patriotic?) elements in French military truly helped my country. We recieved entire lists of NATO flight paths and targets, so most of these sites were evacuated before the bombs fell, eliminating the possibility of a terrible loss of life.

French-Serbian friendship is still strong:)

SerbPVO wrote:

“In Tuzla(Bosnia), where there is a major airfield, there was a recorded incident of an F-117 “Stealth” crash-landing.”

It was an April Fool’s joke played out by a Bosnian radio station. Those in the Yugoslav Ministry of Information picked up on it and it became fact. The same as the Luftwaffe F-4 Phantoms that the Yugoslav Ministry of Information claimed were shot down inside Serbia. The Radio station (Zagreb 101) released the F-117 story as a joke on April 1st. They got major satisfaction when the Yugoslav Ministry of Information dutifully reported it as genuine. A similar story, equally as fantastic, appeared on 30th May 1999. The Serbian Unity Congress reported:

“5/30/99 Unofficial Internet sources reported a forced landing of a damaged US F-117A aircraft at the Nis military airport in southern Serbia. The unconfirmed report claims the pilot, unable to eject from the hit plane, requested and was granted permission to land. No further details were available.”

SerbPVO wrote:

“By the way, some ( patriotic?) elements in French military truly helped my country. We recieved entire lists of NATO flight paths and targets, so most of these sites were evacuated before the bombs fell, eliminating the possibility of a terrible loss of life.

French-Serbian friendship is still strong”

This was Major Pierre-Henri Bunel. Bunel even admitted in interview the following “What I gave him (Serb spymaster Milanovic in Brussels) was a list of the types of targets that might be hit without giving details of any locations, and above all there was the number of targets that would be hit. That’s all, there were neither the places nor the timing nor how it would be done.” Bunel was caught in October 1998. He had no access to these air tasking orders and even admitted it in further interviews. His knowledge was limited and was not privvy to the air tasking orders.

Going back to the claims of the Yugoslav Information Ministry. The Yugoslav disinformation campaign lost the plot very early on. From my position in the RAF it was extremely amusing to watch the claims build up. The Yugoslav disinformation campaign was revealed after the conflict by Milosevic’s own senior advisor on International Affairs Bojan Bugarcic:

This disinformation campaign was revealed in “INAT: Images of Serbia and the Kosovo Conflict” by Scott Taylor He describes an interview with Bojan Bugarcic on 25th November 1999 (Bugarcic, was the Senior Advisor on International Affairs to Yugoslav President Milosevic)

The relevant passage follows on pp 123-124:
“He [Bugarcic] said that, throughout the war, a tremendous, and
extremely effective, propaganda campaign had been mounted by the Serbian military. The aim was to keep the populace believing their forces were mounting a spirited defence.

“Using the state broadcaster, unofficial ‘Russian intelligence’ web
pages and Army communiqués, the deception had been so successful that many people were fooled. My 22-year-old translator, Vlada Kopric, was one example. While he vehemently denounced the government-controlled RTS media network as spouting ‘pure lies,’ his explorations on the Internet had led him to the bogus Russian intelligence site. As a result, up until my November interview with Bugarcic, Vlada had truly believed that the Serbian military had successfully shot down 78 NATO
aircraft. “He was devestated when he learned the truth.”

Two examples of the hilarious disinformation campaign can be found at the following links:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/docs99/990428-11367.htm

“NATO maladroitly hides losses
April 28, 1999

Ekspres politika, April 27, 1999

The world press more often and more openly writes about enormous NATO losses in their complete failure called “air strikes campaign”. As the day when the aggressor will have to give an accounting and inform the families of their killed soldiers and pilots is inevitably approaching, the strategy experts of this alliance are trying to resort to some cheap tricks. However, the facts which reveals not only the world media, but the Russian intelligence too, are more than painful and tormenting.

The Greek daily “Atinaiki”, whose writing NATO never impugned, wrote ten days ago about at least 88 killed alliance soldiers and 32 downed aircraft. Other European newspapers also wrote about these and similar losses of the aggressor. The clandestine role of the 424th American hospital in Thesalonika is secret no more, and neither is the fact that metallic coffins are coming every day into the British base in Cyprus.

These and similar “unpleasant” information, the alliance has been trying to conceal these days in a very awkward way. In the morning news, the Radio Toronto recently reported the crash of a NATO aircraft in Israel (!?), when the pilot and 22 parachuters were killed. Allegedly, those were amateur parachuters who had come from America to train for some sort of a championship. The news would have been swallowed if only 72 hours earlier the news had not leaked on the crash of a helicopter in Japan (three killed), then another crash of F-15 over Puerto Rico (one killed), then new helicopter accidents in Kentucky (eleven killed) and Arizona (12 killed).

The only connection to Kosovo was made by the American TV reporter when she was talking about Kentucky accident, but it was only said that they had been training for their September schedule in this Serbian province.

However, even the laymen know that these fabricated reports are only the attempts for creating such a situation, suitable for sending messages to the hundreds of families about “tragic losses at military drills”. Even the tragic-comic comments have been heard that CNN and other spokesmen of the alliance could launch the news that “three newly born pilots” have died.

NATO knows very well that four F-4 aircraft of the German Airforce did not come back from this monstrous mission over Yugoslavia. According to the information of the Russian Ministry of Defence, one two-men crew died when the aircraft went off in the air, while other three crews were found and captured by the Yugoslav Army.

In the air combat on March 26, seven kilometers to the South of Pancevo, a Yugoslav MIG-29 downed an American F-16C, whereas another four bombers of the same type were downed by the Yugoslav anti-aircraft defence. Two Canadian F/A-18C were shot down and destroyed together with their pilots 11 kilometers to the South of Ruma, and because of that the American northern neighbour sent additional aircraft to Italy on March 30.

Yugoslav MIG-21 managed to blow off the American two-seater F-15E on March 27, which the BBC reported the same day. At least one “Tornado IDS” was downed between March 24 and 26. This two-seater was completely blown off in the sky on the South of Pancevo. Another German “Tornado” was downed on March 29, but the pilot managed to eject himself.

According to Yugoslav and Russian sources, one British “Harrier” was down on March 30, and another one on April 17. A large group of multi-purpose fighter aircraft found themselves in the cross fire of the light anti-aircraft artillery, and had to leave the Yugoslav sky with lots of damage. On April 15, agencies reported about the sad end of so-called “Warthog”, American specialized fighter aircraft for anti-tank fighting A-10A.

The greatest success of the Yugoslav Army is definitely, demystification of the carefully kept secret of the “Stealth” technology.

The invisible fighter F-117A was shot down into the plough-lands of the village of Budjanovci, hit by the earth-to-air missile. Soon after that, Radio Zagreb reported force landing of another Stealth aircraft at the Zagreb airport. According to Reuters, and some other media houses, there is a real possibility that even the third “invisible” aircraft faced the similar sad destiny. On April 6, an aircraft which bombarded the oil refinery in Novi Sad that night, was shot down above Fruska Gora mountain early in the morning.

NATO did not have better luck in its helicopter missions, in which a large number of commandos lost their lives. One HH60-G helicopter with two pilots and 12 commandos fell down between Bijeljina and Tuzla on March 28, and only a day later, the same destiny faced another two helicopters of the similar type. According to Russian sources, a NATO aircraft and two CH-53/53E helicopters were shot down at about 200 kilometers to the South-West from Belgrade, on April 2, with 58 crew members, who are all believed to have died in the accident.

The Yugoslav air defence shot down a considerable number of aircraft, not identified yet, so that the list of the dead aggressor’s soldiers is not final yet. In any case, it is bigger and bigger every day in this aggression on Yugoslavia.

Therefore, it no wonder there is a panicky fear from facing the families of the dead soldiers and ridiculous attempts to hide the truth.”

http://www.hri.org/news/greek/mpab/1999/99-06-01.mpab.html

“10] BELGRADE CLAIMS TO HAVE SHOT DOWN 190 NATO PLANES
Belgrade, June 1, 1999 (MPA)
The Deputy Secretary of Information of the Serb government, Radmila Visic, claimed that Yugoslavia has shot down more that 190 NATO aircrafts since March 24, when the Alliance launched air raids against the country, in her interview at the Macedonian Press Agency.

Mrs Visic accused NATO of concealing the actual number of its losses during the two-month war in Yugoslavia and reassured that when the hostilities are over, the Alliance will be forced to inform first of all the mothers of the dead pilots, who still don’t know the truth.

“Of course Americans and the rest of the NATO allies do not admit that they lost 190 aircrafts and they will not admit it in any of their briefings. However, even in the Internet, in NATO web-site there are data that confirm this number and verify the claims of the Yugoslav army”, said Mrs. Visic. “I am certain that when this is all over, then the international public opinion and especially the American one will face the Vietnam syndrome and then the mothers of the pilots of the shot down planes will be informed that their sons where killed in the raids against Yugoslavia”, she stressed. When asked about why the Yugoslav authorities do not present photos or videos that confirm their allegations of having downed 190 planes, the Serb minister noted that even NATO itself has admitted that Yugoslavia has a remarkable strategy.

“It is part of are tactics, not to show the. I, like a good soldier, will not give more information on this. However, the fact that NATO has announced that it will bring another 1.200 planes against a country with small air force, doesn’t that mean anything to you?”.

Mrs Visic also pointed out the ecological side- effects of the war against her country and stressed that “he ecological disaster cannot be refrained inside the borders of Yugoslavia and that right now NATO attacks all the countries around the river Danube”.

She also expressed her regret for all the Greek students that attended Yugoslav universities and were forced to disrupt their studies and return to Greece because of the war.

She accused NATO of wanting to occupy Yugoslavia and shut off every free source of information while noting that the work of Greek journalists in her country is an objective source of information transmitted all over the world showing exactly what is happening there. “NATO is defeated in the war of information” she stressed. Mrs Visic accused the Alliance of causing the massive exodus of the refugees and said that the Albanians are free to chose where they want to go; they are free to go to Skopje, Albania or Greece or even return to Kosovo. “

TJ

Saudi Arabia never operated Phantoms. Are you thinking of the Lightning?

TJ

Originally posted by DOUGHNUT
Regarding RAF Digby, what happened to the Meteor that was located just inside the main gate? During the mid eightes I made several attempts to photogragh the aircraft, a silver T7 I think, with no success.

DOUGHNUT

WH166 is now owned by Graham Revill (Revill Collection). The Meteor T.7 can be found at Bakers Hill Farm, Birlingham, Pershore, Worcestershire. I used to be stationed at Digby and one of the wind-ups was trying to convince a recent join-up that they had to sit in it wearing a flying helmet during AOC’s visits.

TJ

kurmitz28 wrote:

” Perhaps I am wrong with quoting stories that I dont know too much about, but even today some people in the UK will not go into Maccie D for what had (suppossidly) happened, and I will admit I am one of them. macdonalds being one of the main benifactors to the IRA”

As serving HM Forces this is simply an Urban Myth. When I joined up in the mid-80’s it regularly cropped up. It never fails to amaze me what individuals and groups will believe. After the Warrington IRA bomb the Urban Myth re-appeared.

Quoted in ‘Fortean Times’ [issue 71] McDonalds PR agency claimed that over 30 letters and some phonecalls had been recieved complaining about McDonalds supposed support for the IRA, an example from one Warrington citizen read “Most of your customers are children. How can you justify giving four percent of profits to the IRA?”. A low-profile letter campaign was instigated to quash the rumour, but it still persists today.”

http://www.mcdonalds.com/corporate/investor/mcdirect/index.html

“IRA” in reference to McDonalds is an Individual Retirement Account. McDonalds admitted that pay slips / statements of some of their employees had contained the initials “IRA” in reference to this retirement account.

TJ

A330Crazy wrote:

“TJ I think you are mistaken, icecreamvan 1 is of a Mercedes orientation”

I think you maybe correct on this. Identification isn’t made any easier by inconsiderate positioning of aero plane thingies. This happens at every meet we have! Even more inconsiderate is positioning of barriers far too close. At Waddington this year one of our members lost a unique chime recording from a Mr Whippy. It was lost due to some idiot in an aero plane flying over making a terrible racket. Some of our younger members dropped their ice-creams in fright. It really is intolerable! Thanks for taking the time to post these images and hope that you can visit and contribute to the websites in the future.

TJ
“Respect to the man in the ice-cream van”

http://www.cranwell.raf.mod.uk/

http://www.cranwell.raf.mod.uk/function/FUNCTION.htm

http://www.cranwell.raf.mod.uk/function/MAP.htm

If you want to be an “Electronics Technican” or ground trade you’ll do basic recruit training at RAF Halton, Buckinghamshire.

http://www.rafhalton.co.uk/

If you want to go RAF Regiment (Non-Commissioned) then you’ll spend 2-3 days at Halton then off to the RAF Regiment Depot at RAF Honington, Suffolk.

Link to map of RAF Honington can be found at:

http://www.reserve-forces-anglia.org/RAAF.htm

TJ

Found this on usenet this morning in relation to Spitfire:

http://torontostar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1052251738713&call_pageid=970599119419

“WWII pilot found in wreckage
Spitfire shot down in ferocious dogfight

Relatives thought he was in family plot

VANCOUVER—Archaeologists and Britain’s Ministry of Defence are grappling with a mystery after the body of a Royal Air Force pilot shot down in the Battle of Britain was found recently in his wrecked Spitfire, more than 1,000 kilometres from where he’s supposedly buried.

But the fighter pilot’s last surviving sibling, who lives in Canada, said she doesn’t want his grave disturbed to find out who’s really buried there.

Beatrice Strathdee, who lives in Vancouver nursing home, said she sees no reason to question whose body is in the grave at Mortlach Church in Dufftown, Moray, Scotland.

As far as she is concerned, it is that of her brother William (Sunny) Gordon, 20, shot down Sept. 6, 1940, during a ferocious dogfight with three German Messerschmitts over the Sussex Downs in southern England.

“Let sleeping dogs lie,” said Strathdee, 88. “I don’t think that’s fair. It was so long ago. What can they do about it now anyway?”

But the recent discovery of Pilot Officer Gordon’s body in the buried wreckage of Spitfire No. X4036 on Howbourne Farm, Hadlow Down, raises questions about who is buried in his plot.

Aviation archaeologists who had permission from the British Ministry of Defence to recover the aircraft did not expect to find a body in it.

Their understanding was that Gordon’s body was recovered in 1940 and handed over to the family, which then buried it in a family plot in the church cemetery of tiny Dufftown, population 1,700.

Strathdee did not want to believe her brother’s bones remained in his aircraft for 63 years, especially since his family had held a very public funeral, including having the closed casket rest in state in the family home for several days.

Gordon’s death came one day before the British war ministry issued its coded “Cromwell” warning, indicating it believed Nazi Germany was set to invade within 12 hours.

On the day he died, Gordon and other members of 234 Squadron were attacked by Messerschmitt fighters high in the skies over the Downs.

The next day, the “Cromwell” code led to the Home Guard being called out, bridges being blown up and church bells ringing across southern England.

In the confusion, Gordon’s remains were hastily sent to his parents.

His father, a former army officer who became the district registrar, duly recorded his son’s death. But apparently no one opened the casket to check the remains.

If they did, they kept quiet, although Beatrice Strathdee said Tuesday she had heard before that the body might not be that of her brother.

The body was buried with military honours. The commander of RAF Lossiemouth arranged a fly-past.

Despite Strathdee’s misgivings, the grave will likely be opened, said Rev. Hugh Smith, minister at Mortlach Church.

CANADIAN PRESS”

TJ