TJLatest on Jerusalem Post
The Jerusalem Post are running the following story:
Snippet:
“IAF: We didn’t down Syrian MiGs last September
The air force on Sunday flatly denied a report that Israeli F-16 warplanes shot down two advanced Syrian MiG-29 fighter jets during a dogfight off the Syrian coast last September ….
… in Tel Aviv Sunday, the Air Force flatly denied the report of the air battle.
“There isn’t a shred of truth in it. It just didn’t happen,” an IDF Spokesman said.”
TJ
TJNo grounding of C-130Ks
The RAF will not stop its Hercules C-130 planes flying despite America grounding its 30 oldest aircraft because of wing cracks, the Ministry of Defence has said.
Flight restrictions have been imposed by the US on 60 more of its C-130 fleet. The move by the US Air Force comes less than a fortnight after an RAF Hercules crashed into the Iraqi desert, killing 10 servicemen.
An MoD spokesman said there were no plans to ground any of the RAF’s fleet, adding that the UK version of the plane, the C-130K, was “very different” to America’s C-130E.
“If the US thought there was a problem they would have informed us,” he said. “I am not aware of any such approach. If the president of the board of inquiry (into the Iraq crash) thought there was any risk to fleet safety from his initial findings, the UK fleet would have been grounded.”
The spokesman added that Britain had been “liaising” with the US over the C-130 since the tragedy. He stressed that until the full report was completed, no definite cause for the crash could be stated.
“The UK C-130 is much younger, both in terms of years and flying hours, than the US fleet. This means the UK fleet has a lower fatigue rate. We use the C-130K primarily for strategic flying, the transportation of equipment and personnel, which puts less strain on the aircraft.”
The British model dates from the late 1960s, while the US’s fleet was built at the beginning of that decade, he added.
“The construction of the wing section of the UK Hercules is different to that of the grounded American fleet. The wing structure is much more durable and stronger on the K variant. It’s a different variant and that’s why the RAF has not grounded its fleet.”
http://icsouthlondon.icnetwork.co.u…-name_page.html
TJ
TJYes it does rather support the theory, that the pilot ejected prematurely and could have made it to Tuzla had he not lost his nerve, doesn’t it?
Non-sense. How on earth can you fathom that one out? The SA-3 warhead could have shredded fuel lines or caused an engine fire. Here is a snippet of his interview. The pilot was USAF and not RAF as I have heard on other media over the years.
“…I remember having to fight to get my hands to go down toward the
(ejection seat) handgrips,” he explained. “I always strap in very
tightly, but because of the intense G-forces, I was hanging in the straps
and had to stretch to reach the handles.”
While he recalls the intense strain involved in getting his fingertips to
the ejection handles, he said he doesn’t remember making the
conscious decision to eject from the aircraft.
“‘Am I going to know when it’s time to get out?’ is the question on every
fighter pilot’s mind,” he said. “The one fragment of this
whole event I can’t remember is pulling the handles. God took my hands
and pulled.”
Uninjured except for a few minor abrasions, the Nighthawk pilot described
the ejection as “violent.” Although slightly disoriented
after the high-airspeed ejection, he was very aware he had just bailed
out deep within Serbian territory.
“It didn’t panic me,” he said. “I just got very busy doing what I needed
to do.”
After his parachute had deployed, he said he immediately started working
the rescue.
“I remember thinking, ‘Why wait until I hit the ground? Let’s go for it
now,'” he explained.
The pilot attributes a great deal of his success behind enemy lines to
his Air Force SERE training, an intensive program that
includes survival, evasion, resistance and escape instruction.
“There was not a whole lot of this that I actually had to ponder,” he
said. “The SERE training and periodic life support refresher
training provide a very strong foundation of survival techniques. Having
experienced (survival and evasion) at some level, even
though it was in the training environment, provided some level of
familiarity.”
Because of the potential that the Serbs were also monitoring various
radio frequencies, the pilot had to minimize his radio
transmissions and calls for help.
After making radio contact with NATO forces, he used the remaining
minutes of his descent to survey the land — looking for
landmarks, areas of cover and a landing site.
Parachuting into a freshly plowed field approximately 50 yards from a
road and rail track intersection, he immediately began
burying the life raft and other survival equipment automatically deployed
during the ejection sequence.
“There was some activity at that intersection,” he said. “Thank God no
one actually saw me come down.” While he couldn’t
absolutely confirm that the cars, trucks and people he heard were looking
for him, he did hear search dogs. At one point, a dog came
within 30 feet of where he was huddled.
The pilot spent the next six hours hunkered down in this “hold-up site”
in a shallow culvert 200 yards away from his landing site. It
was during this time that many questions began racing through his head.
“A very important part of the whole combat search and rescue operation is
to minimize transmission on the radio,” he said.
“However, for the downed guy, it’s very unsettling to not know what’s
going on. You’re thinking, ‘Do they know I’m here? Do they
know my location? Where are the assets and who is involved? What’s the
plan? Are they going to try to do this tonight?’ It’s the
unknowns that are unsettling.”
But amid this road race of thoughts, the Air Force officer had something
tangible to get him through six hours of solitude amidst
barking search dogs, passing headlights and pursuit trucks roaring up and
down the nearby road — the American flag.
And while the downed pilot waited, so did the American people, including
those forces deployed to Aviano Air Base, Italy.
“When we heard he was down,” said the airman who had given him the flag,
“it was as if we had lost a member of our family. These
guys aren’t just pilots to us. We know their families and they know
ours.”
The pilot endured for more than a quarter of a day until the special
operations unit arrived. With minimal communication but careful
and discreet authentication of his identity, the search and rescue team
was able to ingress to the pilot’s hold-up location. Search and
rescue specialists with emergency medical capabilities and whose mission
is to recover combat air crews in austere environments
quickly extracted the pilot and whisked him toward friendly ground.
Among the first to greet the rescued pilot at Aviano was the airman. Amid
the hugs, back slapping and hand shaking, the F-117 pilot
spotted her in the crowd and reached into his flight suit to reveal the
flag he had promised to return to her.
“People have asked me if I was thinking about the flag I had given him,”
the airman said. “I wasn’t thinking about it at all. I just
wanted him back.”
TJ
TJHi,
I guess…ACIG has it for about year or so more see it your self the article is there,,but as per acig F-15s were the plane that shot down Syrian MiG-29s..http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_437.shtml
Check the date ..30-Sep-2003
Cheers
What has never been fully detailed is where ACIG got the original story from? It magically appeared and even AFM have recently put the incident in their Attrition Section. The story is highly dubious and sits far too nicely on the back of 9/11 for comfort. Did the original story come via sources in the ‘Reform Party of Syria’? I know that Tom at ACIG gets a bit hot under the collar when it is questioned. Maybe time for him to come clean as to the original source?
TJ
TJok me again with new interesting video
I know tihs tread is old but this video belongs here and i would like it to share it with all of you
Where have you been? This video has been around on the web and other media since 1999!
TJ
TJApparently this happened last September over the Eastern Med. How does something like this stay under wraps for five months?
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtr…3413.05625.html
GI Gene
Oh dear. World Tribune strikes again! This is not a reliable source of information. It appears that it was either a lax day for news at World Tribune or a jounalist will be experiencing a one way conversation with the editor.
Here is the original story as it appeared a few years back. It appears World Tribune has changed the date from “14 September 2001” to “14 September 2004”. Note the exact same names of the Syrian pilots used. Don’t be fooled by World Tribune and also by the original story. The original story is dubious and was linked into a 9/11 based accident/incident. Very dubious.
Here is the original tale as it appeared a few years back. It makes a good story, but as dubious as the World Tribune re-hash:
“The Knife Fight
By September 2001, the situation detoriated further, especially so after the terrorist attacks in New York and Washington, which made both the SyAAF and the IDF/AF extremely nervous. Exactly this provoked the so far heaviest incident in the recent history of Syrian-Israeli aerial clashes.
On 14 September 2001, an IDF/AF Boeing 707, equipped for SIGINT-reconnaissance, was on a mission along the Lebanese and Syrian coast, collecting Syrian defense informations, monitoring foremost telecommunications and radar tags in the Tarabulus (Tripolis) and Hamidiyali areas. The plane was underway at 520 knots and 30.000ft, and escorted by two F-15Cs, at least one of which carried the newest Python Mk.IV air-to-air missiles.
The IDF/AF flew similar missions in the area at least twice a week for quite some time, and – as usually – the SyAAF scrambled two interceptors to shadow the “ferret”: the Syrians would always monitor the operations of Israeli reconnaissance aircraft, sending either MiG-23s from Abu ad-Duhor AB, or – less often – MiG-29s from Tsaykal, forward deployed at al-Ladhiqiyah, would get the honor to fly such missions over the Mediterranean Sea. So far, the Syrians have always taken care to stay at least some 20 kilometers away from Israeli planes, and never showed any interest in attacking the Israelis.
But, on this day, at 0914hrs, the two MiG-29s sent to shadow the Boeing 707 suddenly turned towards the Israeli aircraft and increased their speed. For the pilots of the two Israeli F-15s in escort this was not only surprising, but also an obviously aggressive maneuver. Due to the short range, there was no time to ask questions: the MiGs turned towards the Israeli planes in aggressive manner, and could open fire any moment.
The leader of the F-15-pair ordered the Boeing to instantly distance from the area and engage ECM systems, and then called his ground control for help and reinforcements (as a result of this call, six more F-15s and six F-16s were scrambled, along a single Boeing 707 tanker). Moment later, he warned the Syrian MiG-29 pilots on the international distress frequency to change their course. As the MiGs failed to response, the Eagles moved into attack.
One of the F-15s attacked the lead Syrian MiG-29 from above, closing directly out of the rising sun, and launching a single Python Mk.IV from an off-boresight angle of 40 degrees. The missile guided properly and hit the MiG above the left wing, immediately setting it afire. The other MiG-29 banked hard right, apparently heading back to Syria, but it was too late, as the second F-15 was already too close: the pilot launched a single AIM-9M Sidewinder from a range of only 500 meters. The missile slammed into the target, crashing it into the sea.
Both Syrian pilots, Maj. Arshad Midhat Mubarak, and Capt. Ahmad al-Khatab, ejected safely and were recovered by Syrian ships. The names of the involved Israeli F-15-pilots remain unknown.”
TJ
TJThe same tired excuse,traditionally used to dismiss discussion.You can’t seriously believe your spin? What’s “speculation” & “conspiracy theorist” got to do with the price of beef? It’s OBVIOUS who has “not been reading this thread before posting”;if you had,you would know that I have not once mentioned “speculation” or “conspiracy”!
So much for the spin to try & dismiss any discussion!If it’s “speculation” & “conspiracy”,does that mean all the media is in a “conspiracy” when they report this bomb idea? The problem with reactionary dismissals is that they can’t credibly work,as they can’t credibly explain everyone else!
As the video is very dark & blurred when the missile is fired,it’s impossible to see if it has fins or not.If it is a rocket,how do you know if it is not what shot down the plane? It’s just as possible.
Take a look at “2 of 6”. That is not a SAM!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4224923.stm
TJ
TJStrange,especially as a video claims it was shot down.The video shows a long,narrow missile with white exhaust being fired into the sky.Interesting image if you pause the video when the missile is taking off.Can any see what kind of missile it is? Video is available free to download at http://www.ogrish.com
You have to sign up free,before you can view it.
Nothing strange about it. The video is a splice. The insurgents videod the wreckage of XV179 and then spliced in shots of rockets being fired. The rockets are unguided SSMs. At least they could have attempted some sort of logic and filmed MANPADs being launched. Remember this is low level propaganda. They recently released images of an action figure doll and claimed it was a captured US soldier.
TJ
TJI will concur to your obvious greater knowledge in these matters TJ, but is it usual for an SF-configured C-1 to be used as a ‘trash hauler’ ? (to use an Americanism).
I assume there were other cargo assets available ? so why use XV179 ?
I think that is what is intriguing…..
And no, I am not a conspiracy theorist – just an aviation enthusiast who has tried to stay out of this speculative thread – until now.
Ken
PS – You all might care to reflect for a moment that the 10 ‘bodies’ were returned home today – the moving ceremony at Lyneham was just shown on my local news.
A colleague was absent from work to attend the said ceremony – so while I have no direct connection, it is a little close to home.
You are probably aware of the rumour control in the media of a wing failure on XV179. The following has been released:
PRESS RELEASE — Secretary of the Air Force, Directorate of Public Affairs
Release No. 02-06
February 11, 2005
C-130Es Grounded
SCOTT AIR FORCE BASE, Ill – Air Mobility Command Commander, Gen. John W.
Handy, directed 30 U.S. Air Force C-130E model aircraft be grounded Feb 10.
An additional 60 C-130 aircraft, including some of the E, H, H1, and HC-130
N/P models were placed on restricted flight status to minimize wing stress
and increase the safety margin.
The 30 C-130E aircraft were grounded based upon a recommendation by the
C-130 System Program Office at Robins AFB, Ga. Since 2001, a series of
inspections of the center wing box structure of C-130 has revealed that
cracks to the structure were greater in number and severity than originally
expected.
Most of the aircraft affected are in AMC’s inventory, but affected aircraft
are also assigned to Air Education and Training Command, Pacific Air Forces,
US Air Forces in Europe, the Air National Guard, and Air Force Reserve
Command.
“Working together with the Air National Guard, Air Force Reserve Command and our active duty units, we are committed to meeting our requirements to war fighters around the world’, Handy said.”
TJ
TJI read that there is a video of the attack on the French camp in Bouake. Has anybody seen it? Is it available on the net?
“Ivory Coast air borne again after UN go-ahead
ABIDJAN, Jan 24 (AFP) – Ivory Coast’s air force took to the skies again at the weekend following UN permission to repair aircraft wrecked in November by French forces after they killed French peacekeepers, witnesses and UN officials said Monday.
A spokesman for the UN peacekeeping mission in the divided country, known as ONUCI, said a Russian-built Mi-24 helicopter gunship had made several test flights over the political capital of Yamoussoukro Saturday and Sunday, after UN officials had verified that it was not armed.
Witnesses contacted by telephone from Abidjan said the helicopter flew over several times at low altitude, and was greeted with enthusiasm by residents of the city.
A British
Aerospace Strikemaster ground-attack aircraft also took off from Yamoussoukro on both days, ONUCI said. The UN and the parallel French peacekeeping contingent gave permission Saturday for the government of Ivory Coast to repair its air force, which was knocked out by French troops in November.
“It involves restoring them to flying condition, repairing the damaged planes, not rearming them,” ONUCI spokesman Hamadoun Toure told AFP.
Four Russian-built Sukhoi-25 fighter-bombers and a number of helicopters were destroyed on the ground by French forces on November 6, hours after air attacks killed nine French peacekeepers and a US aid worker.
The attacks came when President Laurent Gbagbo’s government suddenly broke an 18-month truce with rebels holding the northern half of the country.
The French reprisals at the airports of Abidjan and Yamoussoukro were followed by massive anti-French demonstrations, forcing some 8,000 French and other Western civilians living in Ivory Coast to flee.
On November 15 the United Nations Security Council imposed an arms embargo on both sides in the conflict in the world’s top cocoa-producer.
It was not clear Saturday how many of the aircraft would be repairable.
Two Sukhois were still on the end of the runway at Yamoussoukro since French forces disabled them.
Toure said they would have to be brought by road from Yamoussoukro 250 kilometres (150 miles) south to Abidjan, the economic capital.
The 4,000 men of France’s Operation Unicorn have been keeping the two sides apart in Ivory Coast since shortly after a failed coup by renegade troops against Gbagbo in September 2002 resulted in the country’s division.
The 6,000-strong ONUCI deployed in April last year to bolster a French-sponsored peace deal which has failed to calm tensions and reconcile the nation since it was signed two years ago.
Foreign military sources said that the wrecked planes had been flown at least partly by mercenary pilots from Belarus and Ukraine.”
TJ
TJI will concur to your obvious greater knowledge in these matters TJ, but is it usual for an SF-configured C-1 to be used as a ‘trash hauler’ ? (to use an Americanism).
I assume there were other cargo assets available ? so why use XV179 ?
I think that is what is intriguing…..
And no, I am not a conspiracy theorist – just an aviation enthusiast who has tried to stay out of this speculative thread – until now.
Ken
PS – You all might care to reflect for a moment that the 10 ‘bodies’ were returned home today – the moving ceremony at Lyneham was just shown on my local news.
A colleague was absent from work to attend the said ceremony – so while I have no direct connection, it is a little close to home.
Regardless of type/configuration it is still a transport asset to be utilised. They don’t go around carrying ‘hooligans’ everyday.
TJ
TJU sitll did not reply to what i asked abt the 10 ppl on broad and the extra stuf that u mentioned ….
You seem to have lack of comprehension skills. It appears I am trying to debate with an adolescent and no form of debate will suffice. Please continue to live in your little fantasy world.
TJ
TJNow genious, since u say that my post is dumb and also goes on record that even u have travelled in a Herc when u were one of the total 3 crews with the a/c transporting cargos. I’d like to know what else was there other than the 10 ppl on it, which was flying in a rather short route in an area controlled by the Americans when the Americans themselves is not short of any cargo planes or for that matter heavy lift choppers if it was for just 10 of the guys. If not the said casuality figures is actually higher than what BBC reported (10)
Please stop living in a fantasy world. RAF Hercs ran a regular shuttle run to Balad. This was confirmed by Air Marshal Sir Jock Stirrup. The flight was nothing out of the ordinary. UK business in Iraq is not confined solely to Multinational Division (South East). On board that flight was a Strike Command staff officer whose job in Iraq was liaison. If you believe that the casualty figure is higher then you are seriously deluding yourself.
TJ
TJSo what? They have all the rights to buy any missiles they want… I don’t see Israel hesitating from getting military hardware of any kind, as well.
Of course, it is purely coincidence, that Ukrainian secret police has found something like that just in time GWB needs more ridiculous arguments to back up another potential invasion.
Not quite. Firstly there is the small problem of the Ukrainian agreement on the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR). Although voluntary it’s a bit embarrassing for them if the ALCMs did go astray. Secondly, the ALCMs came under START. The Ukrainians made a commitment to comply with the destruction/transfer back to Russia of strategic assets. If the ALCMs went astray then again it gets a bit embarrassing on their agreement of START compliance. There must have been some sort of accountability of these ALCMs? Between the Ukrainians and Russians they must know themselves by serial if any of the ALCM airframes are missing.
TJ
TJI know this will be off topic (or at least semi off topic) but does anyone remember, or have reports about, an Iranian air attack on Iraq pre-Operation Iraqi Freedom. I used to have a news report on it but I’ve either allowed it to stagnate on my other computer or its backed up on a CD somewhere and I’m too lazy to look for it. If my memory serves me right the Iranians attacked targets near Baghdad with their Su-24s in 2001 – now I can’t remember the details so I don’t know what the targets were but I definitely remember something like this going down… Looks like we really do need Mr Cooper to comment on this thread.
If I’m wrong about this or it was just a rumour I promise to feel particularly stupid about this post.
Iran fired a number of SSMs at training camps in Iraq during 2001. These training camps housed Iraqi funded anti-Iranian groups. MKO or MEK groups I believe.
TJ
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