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toan

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  • in reply to: JASDF F-2 Deployment #2322230
    toan
    Participant
    in reply to: JASDF F-2 Deployment #2322754
    toan
    Participant

    JASDF may lose most of its own F-2Bs now because the base of 21st Squadron has been destroyed by the 8.9 quake tsunami on 2011/03/11……

    http://komica7.dreamhosters.com/17/src/1299839283336.jpg

    http://komica7.dreamhosters.com/17/src/1299839283336.jpg

    in reply to: Eurofighter Typhoon News & Discussions Thread IV #2323312
    toan
    Participant

    j-10 would probably complement their Su-30MKK better, but if they really went after Typhoid.. whats the point of a 3rd type. They going India on us?

    Indonesia has also joined Southern Korean KF-X project ~ I think after the event of “S. Korean Spies Burgled Indonesia Arms Team’s Room” in February, Indonesia shall not be very happy and think it need another choice to compete with KF-X…..

    in reply to: MMRCA News And Discussion 7 #2324746
    toan
    Participant

    Shortlist for A2A capability: EF-2000, Rafale, Gripen NG.

    Shortlist for A2G capability: F/A-18E/F, Rafale, F-16IN.

    Shortlist for multirole capability: Rafale, F/A-18E/F, Gripen NG.

    Shortlist for price and cost: MIG-35, Gripen NG, F-16IN.

    Shortlist for political relation: F/A-18E/F, F-16IN, MIG-35.

    in reply to: Eurofighter Typhoon News & Discussions Thread IV #2326599
    toan
    Participant

    The cost that Scorpion82 offered is the “unit flyaway cost” ~ the cost for building a fighter only, while the two kinds of costs that NAO mentioned in its report are the “Unit R&D cost + Acquisition cost” and “Unit R&D cost + Acquisition cost + Estimated life-long operating cost”.And of course, there will be huge difference among them for any fighter, not just Typhoon.

    Taking some other fighters for example:

    F-22A:
    * Fly-away cost: 130 ~ 150 million USDs per fighter during 2005 to 2009.
    * Unit R&D cost + Acquisition cost: more than 354 million USDs per fighter today.

    F/A-18E:
    * Fly-away cost: less than 50 million USDs per fighter according to the declaration of Boeing (but the prices of engine and radar are not included in this cost).
    * Acquisition cost: more than 90 million USDs per fighter.
    * Unit acquisition cost + Estimated operating cost for 20 years: Near 200 million USDs per fighter according to the Australian estimation.

    And since the NAO’s report didn’t offer the fly-away cost for RAF’s Eurofighter today, you can’t prove the data that Scorpion82 offered is right or wrong just according to that report.

    in reply to: Eurofighter Typhoon News & Discussions Thread IV #2327429
    toan
    Participant

    Personal conclusion…..

    RAF’s Eurofighter today:

    1. Unit R&D + Acquistion cost: 126.25 million pounds (196.95 million USDs) per fighter, or around 55.5% of F-22’s unit R&D + Acquistion cost (354.86 million USDs per fighter).

    2. Reducing the procuring number of EF2000 from 232 to 160 = 45% increase of unit R&D cost ~ This is the problem of UK government, not Eurofighter.

    3. The value of £ today is only 75% of £ in 2006~2007, which means if you want to buy something that had the value of 100 pounds in 2006~2007, you shall have to pay 133 pounds to buy it today just because of the reduced value of £. And “The unit cost of each Typhoon has risen by 75%” may actually mean around 30% increase for its “True price” if you removed the factor of the reduced value of £.

    4. RSAF has already bought 24 Tranche II fighters from RAF ~ Doesn’t it make any compensation for the cost over-run of RAF’s Typhoon project ??

    in reply to: Eurofighter Typhoon News & Discussions Thread IV #2327957
    toan
    Participant

    Despite the roughly 30% reduction in aircraft numbers, the NAO says the UK’s total development and production costs are expected to reach £20.2 billion, 20% higher than originally planned. Along with other factors, it calculates that the unit cost of each Typhoon has risen by 75%. Support costs are also one-third higher than originally expected, it says, while elements of the four-nation management structure are “complex and inefficient”.

    Two things should be taken into consideration:

    First:
    In 2006~2007: 1 pound = 2.0 ~ 2.1 US dollars.
    In 2010~2011: 1 pound = 1.5 ~ 1.6 US dollars.
    Comparing with 2006~2007, the value of £ today has actually been reduced 25%.

    Second:
    Because UK government has decided to reduce the procuring number of EF2000 from 232 to 160, the “Unit R&D cost” per fighter shall rise 45% ~ It is not the fault of Eurofighter itself.

    in reply to: Eurofighter Typhoon News & Discussions Thread IV #2327971
    toan
    Participant

    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/03/02/353798/nao-report-slams-uks-typhoon-acquisition.html

    1. Eurofighter Typhoons could cost up to £37 billion ($60.2 billion) to acquire and support over the type’s service life, but will not become the UK’s first choice aircraft for ground attack missions until around 2018, according to a new National Audit Office (NAO) report.

    2. Despite the roughly 30% reduction in aircraft numbers, the NAO says the UK’s total development and production costs are expected to reach £20.2 billion, 20% higher than originally planned.

    NAO gives us two kinds of costs for RAF’s 160 EF-2000:

    1. R&D cost + Acquistion cost = 20.2 billion pounds (around 31.5 billion USDs today) for 160 Typhoons. Therefore, the “Unit R&D cost + Acquistion cost” for RAF Eurofighter today is around 20.2 billion pounds (or 31.5 billion USDs) / 160 = 126.25 million pounds or 196.95 million USDs per fighter.

    2. R&D cost + Acquistion cost + Support over the type’s service life cost = 37.0 billion pounds (around 57.7 billion USDs today) for 160 Typhoons, Therefore, the “Unit R&D cost + Acquistion cost + Estimated support over the type’s service life cost” for RAF Eurofighter today is around 37.0 billion pounds (or 57.7 billion USDs) / 160 = 231.25 million pounds or 360.75 million USDs per fighter.

    Why some guys declare “The RAF’s Typhoon today is more expensive than the USAF’s Raptor” ?? Because they use the “Unit R&D cost + Acquistion cost + Estimated support over the type’s service life cost” of RAF’s Typhoon today to compare with the “Unit R&D cost + Acquistion cost” of USAF’s Raptor.

    I buy a Toyota with the cost of 25,000 USDs, and my maintenance cost for this car in the next ten years shall be around 15,000 USDs, and because my Toyota’s “procurement cost + maintenance cost in the next ten years” is higher than your BMW’s procurement cost (30,000 USDs), so my Toyota is more noble and luxury than your BMW, right??:D

    in reply to: Eurofighter Typhoon News & Discussions Thread IV #2331067
    toan
    Participant

    How much life the T1 airframes have in them/will have in time when they should be retired/stored?

    1. The airframe service life of T1: 6,000 flight hours.

    2. The average flight hours of RAF’s Typhoon according to a report a few years ago: 30 flight hours per fighter and per month, or 360 flight hours per fighter and per month.

    3. The recent news say that RAF prepares to retire its own T1 Typhoons by 2019, which is 15 years after T1 began to enter service.

    Therefore, I think the oldest T1 Typhoon may get 360*15 = 5,400 flight hours at the time of 2019.

    Without life-extension and upgrading, it is very natural that T1 Typhoon shall began to be retired from RAF at the time of post-2018, and T2/T3A Typhoons, which have extended airframe service life of 8,000 flight hours, shall began to be retired from RAF at the time of post-2030.

    Personal anticipation:

    * post-2015: Retirement of Tornado GR4 –> Replaced by Typhoon T2/T3.

    * post-2019: Retirement of Typhoon T1 –> Replaced by F-35C.

    * post-2030~2040: Retirement of Typhoon T2/T3 –> Replaced by new UCAV (2030~2035) and next generation European fighter (post-2035).

    in reply to: Hot Dog Typhoon thread III #2331985
    toan
    Participant

    So, according to the NAO’s report, the unit cost of RAF’s EF-2000 today:

    1. R&D cost + Acquisition cost = 20.2 billion pound (roughly equal to 31.5 billion USD) / 160 = 126.25 million pound / 196.95 million USD per fighter.

    2. R&D cost + Acquisition cost + Whole-life operational cost = 37.0 billion pound (roughly equal to 57.7 billion USD) / 160 = 231.25 million pound / 360.75 million USD per fighter.

    in reply to: Hot Dog Typhoon thread III #2332001
    toan
    Participant

    http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2011/03/02/353798/nao-report-slams-uks-typhoon-acquisition.html

    NAO report slams UK’s Typhoon acquisition

    The Royal Air Force’s reduced fleet of Eurofighter Typhoons could cost up to £37 billion ($60.2 billion) to acquire and support over the type’s service life, but will not become the UK’s first choice aircraft for ground attack missions until around 2018, according to a new National Audit Office (NAO) report.

    Despite the roughly 30% reduction in aircraft numbers(232–>160), the NAO says the UK’s total development and production costs are expected to reach £20.2 billion, 20% higher than originally planned.[/B] [B]Along with other factors, it calculates that the unit cost of each Typhoon has risen by 75%. Support costs are also one-third higher than originally expected, it says, while elements of the four-nation management structure are “complex and inefficient”.

    “In 2009, the department slowed down the pace with which it planned to introduce new Typhoon squadrons to cut costs. As a result, it reduced the requirement for flying hours by a total of 21,100 hours over the seven years to 2015-16.” Accordingly, the report says it “has prioritised pilot training on air defence roles which is currently its key task”.

    Despite the cut in flying hours, the report reveals that the lower than expected availability of spare parts caused a 13% shortfall in planned sorties across the fleet in 2009-10. Some parts had to be sourced from other aircraft to support those fighters deployed in the Falkland Islands, it says.

    Meanwhile, the NAO is concerned by plans to reduce the strength of the Typhoon fleet through the retirement of 53 Tranche 1 aircraft by 2019. The retained assets will be used alongside an as-yet undetermined number of Lockheed Martin F-35C Joint Strike Fighters, but it says “the department has acknowledged that there is risk that the eventual fleet size of 107 Typhoons could result in shortfalls against mandated capability levels.”

    in reply to: Tornado fleet to be grounded early? #2333296
    toan
    Participant
    in reply to: Hot Dog Typhoon thread III #2335601
    toan
    Participant

    What’s the history behind 1016 kg = 1 ton ?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_ton

    in reply to: Hot Dog Typhoon thread III #2335606
    toan
    Participant

    I am surprised that with 5 tons internal and with drop tanks the ferry range is still only 3700 km? Or is that number wrong?

    Edit: seems that number is wrong:

    http://www.armedforces.co.uk/raf/listings/l0028.html

    5.382 km is more like it (with 4 drop tanks).

    1. The Eurofighter today has three wet pylons, which means the maximal number of external fuel tanks it can carry now is “Three”.

    2. The RAF’s Typhoon has only one kind of external fuel tank for using now: 1,000L class.

    in reply to: Hot Dog Typhoon thread III #2335700
    toan
    Participant

    So not an official source.

    Not a critic towards you, but I can link to a dozen sites with different values, ranging from 4000 to 5000kg, that’s why I asked.

    Do you think the 5000kg value is credible?

    Eurofighter 2002 Factbook:

    http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-8912-postdays-0-postorder-asc-start-45.html

    http://img143.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=27446_ef-characteristics_122_1177lo.JPG

    * MTOW: 23,500 kg

    * Empty weight: 11,150 kg

    * Maximal external load: 7,500 kg

    >> The internal fuel load should be within the range of 4,500 to 5,000 kg……

Viewing 15 posts - 406 through 420 (of 909 total)