toanthe UK will have 200 of the worlds best and most sophisticated fighter aircraft for the next 30 years….
A: Maybe good enough if UK government decides to scale the RAF’s capability back to homeland security only.
and with it possibly Swarms of UCAVs that would be controlled by the F-35 or the EFA…..
A: The price for developing and procuring the UCAV (and the controlling system / ultra-high-speed datalink for it) that is capable enough is no less than the price for developing and procuring an advanced manned fighter. It is hard to believe a country which has no money to buy 48 more Typhoons can afford such development and procurement.
Seriously most of the fights the RAF is going to get it self into in the next decade is going to be peace missions etc etc………..
A: UK and USA believed the similar thing after 1918 and decided to greatly reduce their military capability. Honestly speaking, this kind of belief was true until 1938…….
Long live the NEW RAF
A: If the next Falklands war happens at the time of around 2025. The new RAF may have to pray to defeat the entire Argentina military force with no more than 4 Eurofighters on the island…..
toanIf the UK government decide to reduce its ambition for national defensive capability and international military projection to the scale that is similar to Sweden, then it should be OK for such reducing……
However, the truth is that although RAF today has more Eurofighters than GAF, ItAF, and SpAF, the workload for RAF is so heavy that the speed of RAF’s Typhoon for accumulating flight hours per year is two times higher than the speed of GAF / ItAF / SpAF’s Typhoon for accumulating flight hours per year.
And guess what will happen if RAF does the similar amount of jobs with just 1/2 to 1/3 numbers of tactical fighters after 2020….
toanThe tactical fighters for RAF after 2020:
1. No more than 160 Eurofighter Typhoons, and might be reduced to the number of 100 ~ 120 before 2025 without the life-extension plan for Tranche I fighters or the procurement for Tranche IIIB fighters.
2. Around 50 F-35B for CVF.
3. The replacement for Tornado GR4 ~ more F-35 ? Tranche IIIB ? UCAV ? or simply nothing ?
In the worst situation, the RAF may have no more than 150 tactical fighters in total after 2025………
toanhttp://www.deagel.com/news/FMS-Brazil-Seeks-36-FA-18EF-Super-Hornets_n000006453.aspx
WASHINGTON, August 6, 2009
Today the Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) notifiedCongress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Brazil of 28 F/A-18E Super HornetAircraft, eight F/A-18F Super Hornet Aircraft, 72 F414-GE-400 installed engines, a host of spare partsand munitions at an estimated value of $7.0 billion.
The Government of Brazil will request a possible sale of:
1. 28 F/A-18E Super Hornet Aircraft and 8 F/A-18F Super Hornet Aircraft.
2. 72 F414-GE-400 installed engines and 4 F414-GE-400 spareengines.
3. 36 AN/APG-79 Radar Systems.
4. 36 M61A2 20mm Gun Systems.
5. 36 AN/ALR-67(V)three Radar Warning Receivers.
6. 144 LAU-127 Launchers.
7. 44 JHMCS.
8. Weapons:
a. 28 AIM-120C7 .
b. 28 AIM-9M .
c. 60 GBU-31/32 JDAM.
d. 36 AGM-154 JSOW.
e. 10 AGM-88B HARM.
9. 36 AN/ASQ-228 (V2) ATFLIR Pods.
10. 36 AN/ALQ-214 Radio Frequency Countermeasures.
11. 40 AN/ALE-47 Electronic Warfare Countermeasures Systems,
12. 112 AN/ALE-50 Towed Decoys.
13. Joint Mission Planning System.
14. support equipment, spare and repair parts, personnel training and training equipment, ferry and tanker support, flight test, software support, publications and technical documents, U.S Government and contractor engineering, technical and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics and program support.
toanEgypt –F-16C/D Block 50/52 Aircraft
(Source: Defense Security Cooperation Agency; dated Oct. 9, web-posted Oct. 14, 2009)
The Government of Egypt has requested a possible sale of:
— 24 F-16C/D Block 50/52 Aircraft installed with either the F100-PW-229 or F110-GE-129 Increased Performance Engines (IPE) and APG-68(V)9 radars;
— 6 F100-PW-229 or F110-GE-129 IPE spare engines;
— 6 APG-68(V)9 spare radar sets ;
— 60 LAU-129/A Common Rail Launchers;
— 28 AN/APX-113 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe (AIFF) Systems without Mode IV;
— 28 M61 20mm Vulcan Cannons
Non-MDE Equipment:
— 28 AN/ALQ-211 Advanced Integrated Defensive Electronic Warfare Systems (AIDEWS); or Advanced Countermeasures Electronic Systems (ACES) which includes the AN/ALQ-187 Electronic Warfare System and the AN/ALR-93 Radar Warning Receiver;
— 28 AN/ARC-238 Single Channel Ground and Airborne Radio System (SINCGAR) radios without HAVE QUICK I/II;
— 4 F-9120 Advanced Airborne Reconnaissance Systems or DB-110 Reconnaissance Pods;
— 28 Global Positioning Systems (GPS) and Embedded GPS/Inertial Navigation Systems (INS) with Standard Positioning Service commercial code only;
— 12 AN/AAQ-33 SNIPER Advanced Targeting Pods or AN/AAQ-28 LITENING Targeting Pods;
— 24 pairs of Conformal Fuel Tanks;
— 28 AN/ALE-47 Countermeasures Dispensing Systems.
Also included: Base construction, support equipment, software development/integration, tanker support, ferry services, Cartridge Actuated Devices/Propellant Actuated Devices (CAD/PAD), repair and return, modification kits, spares and repair parts, publications and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, U.S. Government and contractor technical, engineering, and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $3.2 billion.
toanAs already mentioned the 234 (84 Rafale B, 150 Rafale C) have been cut to 228. I think its 8 Rafale squadrons total?
Squadrons for Rafale according to FAF’s declaration during April, 2008:
1. Provence (Rafale B/C for A2A, A2G, and RECO missions).
2. Gascogne (Rafale B for nuclear-striking mission).
3. Normandie-Niemen (Mirage F1CT today).
4. Alsace (Mirage F1B / CT today).
5. Lorraine (A previous Mirage F1 squadron that has been disbanded now).
6. Lafayette (Mirage 2000N today).
7. Cigognes (Mirage 2000-5F today).
8. Ile-de-France (Mirage 2000 B/C today).
Each squadron shall acquire 20 Rafales finally.
* Three Mirage 2000N squadrons today shall be replace by two Rafale B squadrons after 2018.
* Six Mirage 2000B/C/-5F squadrons today: two will be replaced by Rafale B/C, and the other four ??
* Four Mirage 2000D squadrons today: replaced by Rafale or UCAV after 2025 to 2030 ??
toanI’m impressed with Frances missile development but in this day and age i’m not exactly sure what role this missile has anymore? Where are France going to strike that is in range of the Rafale and KC-135? i know some are on the carrier but again what situation would require the French to take the risk of sending an aircraft on a nuclear strike mission that it couldn’t use an SLBM for?
I am guessing that the Rafale has take over the nuclear role from the Mirage 2000? Do the french keep 1 squadron for the nuclear stirke mission or does that squadron perfom other roles as well?
1. ASMP-A is defined as a pre-strategic weapon according to French opinion. It is powerful enough to threaten (or revenge) the possible nuclear attack to France from the rogue country of 3rd world, but not so powerful that may cause the WW3.
2. Rafale shall take over the nuclear role from the Mirage 2000N completely after 2018.
3. The pilots of EC1/91 (the 1st Rafale squadron of FAF for nuclear striking mission) spend some time to practice air-defense and QRA missions (Air International 2009/09).
4. For French AF, only the Rafale B will be used for nuclear striking mission: “Dual-key safety system” ~ only after both of the pilots in Rafale B agree, will ASMP-A be able to be fired (Air International 2009/09).
toanhttp://www.janes.com/extracts/extract/jsws/jsws0006.html
Estimation of Janes for ASMP-A:
1. Maximal effective range: 500 to 700 km (Fired from the high altitude).
2. Maximal effective range: 180 km (Fired from the low altitude).
3. TNA warhead*1 (Selectable explosive power: 20KT, 90KT, and 300KT).
4. CEP: class of 10 meters.
5. Productional numbers: 47 missiles (40 for formal service).
Standard configuration of Rafale B for nuclear-striking mission:
1. ASMP-A cruise missile *1.
2. 2,000 L external fuel tanks*2.
3. MICA EM/IR AAM*6 (For self-protection and protecting KC-135F).
toan1. It is true that Rafale MLU may be the similar thing as Rafale Dash 5, and the completely new radar may be the same thing as upgrading RBE-2 AESA（GaN？）+/- Side-looking AESA arrays ~ I won’t deny that it is actually impossible to predict precisely what will happen to Rafale after 2015……..
2. The radar for Mirage 2000 has been changed or upgraded for three to four times (RDM –> RDI –> RDY –> RDY-2 –> RDY-3 ??) in the past 25 years (1984 to 2009). Let’s wait and see if the similar thing will also happen to Rafale………
toanRafale Family Of 21th Century……
(A little arrangement of Mr. Arthuro’s previous posts for this topic)
1. RAFALE F3（2008 ~ 2012）：
A. The first configuration of Rafale family with complete function.
B. New equipments: RECO-NG, DAMOCLES, ASMP-A, AM-39, and GBU-24.
C. RBE-2 PESA radar (AESA upgrading in future).
D. FSO（for upgrading fighter）and FSO-IT（for newly built fighter）.
E. ROVER capability.
F. All Rafales of French airforce and navy should be F3 configuration after February, 2010.
2. Rafale F3+（2012 ~ 2017）：
A. New equipments: Damocles XF, Laser-guided rocket pod, new variant(s) of AASM family.
B. RBE-2 AESA radar.
C. FSO-IT.
D. DDM-NG.
E. SATCOM datalink.
F. Upgrading for Spectra EWS.
G. Possibility of equipping HMS.
H. M88 GCP engines for reducing life cycle costs
3. Rafale UAE（2013 ~ ????）：
A. New equipment: Meteor BVRAAM.
B. The same class of electronic systems as F3+ configuration.
C. GMTI and GMTT modes.
D. Uprating M88 engines.
E. Improvement for LO capability.
F. Increasing weapon load（SCALP-EG*3 + 2,000 L tank*2 + AAM*4）.
4. Rafale Batch 5（2018 ~ 2023）：
A. New equipment: Meteor BVRAAM.
B. Upgrading RBE-2 AESA（GaN？）+/- Side-looking AESA arrays.
C. GMTI and GMTT modes.
D. OSF-NG.
E. HMS
F. DDM-NG +/- Active MAWs.
G. Upgrading for data fusion and SATCOM datalink.
H. Upgrading for SPECTRA EWS and LO capability.
I. Possibility of equipping LDIRCM.
5. Rafale MLU (Post-2020 to 2025…..)：
A. Completely new radar and/or other electronics.
B. Uprating M88 engines.
C. CFTs.
D. Major upgrading for fighter’s stealth and EWS.
E. UCAV controller.
toanIt seems that the upgrading choices that ROCAF has accepted for its F-CK-1 now don’t include CFT.
toanIt all depends on what type of maintence is being referred to here. Some of the aircraft maybe undergoing upgrades, repairs or other work during the year, which would increase the cost. Any confirmation if these are operating maintence costs or is there a breakdown of the type of work baing carried out?
The maintenance cost that I’ve mentioned above for F-CK-1 includes the items for upgrading, while the cost for Mirage in my previous post is mainly used for increasing Mirage’s availability ~ The availabilty of ROCAF’s Mirage 2000-5 was less than 45% (Only 25 Mirages out of the total 56 fighters was ready for active service) during 2006-2007 (At the same period of time, the availability of F-16 and F-CK-1 was around 70 to 75%). ROCAF hopes that after sealing up 9 Mirages and paying so much for enough spare parts, the availability of the residual 47 Mirages could reach the normal level of 70% in 2009.
toanDo you mean per plane? Or does it cost twice as much to maintain 56 Mirage than 146 F-16 A/B!? That would mean they are roughly 4 times as expensive per plane?
L
The maintainance cost of ROCAF in 2009: around 9000 million NT / 273 million USD.
1. For the spare parts of 56 Mirage 2000-5: 2100 million NT / 64 million USD.
2. For the spare parts of 146 F-16 A/B MLU: 570 million NT / 17.4 million USD.
3. For the spare parts of 120+ F-CK-1: 1600 million NT / 48.8 million USD.
toanAs a Taiwanese, personally I don’t think ROC government will have the interest to buy the more large French weapons (fighter, ship, tank….) in the foreseeable future. There are just too many unpleasant experiences and problems to the military sales between French and Taiwan in the past ten years:
1. Scandals of bribery and corruption that even caused several murders.
2. Money: Besides the higher price of French weapons, the annual maintenance cost of ROCAF for 56 Mirage 2000-5 today is almost two times of the annual maintenance cost of ROCAF for 146 F-16 A/B Block20.
3. Time: Because there are only around 200 Mirage 2000-5/-5MK2/-9 in the world today, it is very time-consuming to acquire the necessary spare parts for this series (The Freanch manufacturer wouldn’t begin to produce a certain spare part until it acquire enough orders for it from the several customers…..). ROCAF had once ordered some necessary spare parts for its own Mirage 2000-5, and the French manufacturer began to offer them half a year later after the contract had been signed……..
4. Difficulty for future upgrading ~ ROCAF had once been prepared to equip Link-16 to its own Mirage, but was failed then because of the refusal from France.
5. Finally, the relationships between Mainland China and France……….
“Give me all secrets of Taiwanese Mirage and MICA, and I will order several hundreds more Airbus as a reward, Franco.”
“My pleasure, Sir Er.”
toan1. According to the special report of AFM, 2008/11, a French navy pilot said that US Navy pilot had never shown the real capability of JHMCS + AIM-9X during the Joint Task Force Exercise 2008, which is very different from Mr. Arthuro’s information in his previous posts. And I wonder which side is the more correct one…….
2. Is there any concrete data for the exchange ratio of EF-2000 v.s Rafale during the exercises in the recent years??
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