Why do people continue to use PRE-WEIGHT REDUCTION numbers for the F-35?

PRODUCTION aircraft benefit from a 2+year weight reduction program…

Then why does the F-35 manufacturer’s website still keeps using you-called outdated data in 2009 without any revision like the above information you offered ???

So we didn’t read the same thing toan, and I don’t think I have failed in anything: when the journalist says the rafale is one generation above that its datafusion gives it a clear edge that the rafale is a force multiplier, that the greek pilots praised the MMI, sensor fusion, situational awarness, spectra, passive identification what else do you need really ??

A: And when the English journalist says that the MMI of Eurofighter is ahead of Rafale, and a German pilot declares that Eurofighter handled Rafale very well during a dogfight between them recently, should I give them the same confidence to what they say ??

Greek pilots praised the electronic systems of Rafale, but they made no detailed comparison between Rafale F2 and F-16C/D Block52+. So we still has no idea about that how much better the Rafale F2 is over F-16 C/D Block52 in air-combat exercise.

I already said that no exact results were given, but knowing that the F1 was already deemed to be marginally superior and considering the very positive stance of the journalists and the greek pilots it is a safe bet that the rafale F2 was superior. let alone the F3 and the F3+.

A: Of course Rafale F2 should be the superior one, no one will deny that, but how much superior ?? is it superior enough ?? or what is the definition of superior enough ?? We still have no idea.

You are just dishonnest on this one, please translate both articles and read them and you’ll see.:)

A: Are you accusing me as a liar ?? That is a very strange accusation for me…….

Which goes to show you should take everything you read on Wiki with a pinch of salt. Generelly, the higher you go the colder. There are layers of stable/warmer air and location is also important, but the Wiki description isn’t correct.
Try this graph for size
http://www.classzone.com/books/earth_science/terc/content/investigations/es1702/es1702page05.cfm

The graph you offered was the weather of Riverton, Wyoming 12Z, in August 20, 2001. I think it should be obvious that the graph of altitude and temperature won’t be the same in different place and time.

What Wiki said is that the boundary between troposphere and stratosphere is not at the same or similar altitude in any time and any place in the world. And I’ve found one more interesting description in Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troposphere

“The average depth of the troposphere is about 11 km (7 miles) in the middle latitudes. It is deeper in the tropical regions (up to 20 km (12 miles)) and shallower near the poles (about 7 km (4 miles) in summer, indistinct in winter).“

I think the place of Sweden should be close to the northern pole, isn’t it ?? Therefore, the altitude (28,000 fts) that Gripen Demo achieved this supercruise record might have entered the region of stratosphere.

Precisely!!

This is exactly the case. BUT it seems that HAF was not that much impressed.
On the contrary. The best impressions were won by the other one….
you know… the E word;)

Had the E word ever exercised with HAF’s F-16 C/D Block52 and then won a very impressive result ?? I haven’t seen such a report before.

The supercruising capability of Raptor:

http://integrator.hanscom.af.mil/2005/November/11032005/11032005-11.htm

Paths to Air Dominance

New forms of airpower will give Washington more military options at an affordable price

By John A. Tirpak
Air Force Magazine
November 2005

The F/A-22’s ability to cruise supersonically is an essential feature. If you didn’t buy it for stealth, you’d buy it for speed, Lewis said. He noted that F/A-22s at Langley can get to Washington, D.C., in just seven minutes and be able to loiter in the area for 41 minutes before going home. This marks a vast improvement over F-15s, which would take longer to arrive and would have to refuel almost immediately.

PS: The distance between Washington, D.C. and Langley Airbase is around 130 miles / 209 km.

According to AW&ST, June 12, 2006:

For the anti-cruise missile mission, F-22A can cruise 41 minutes with the speed of around 1.5 Mach, while the traditional fighters like F-15 and F-16 can just cruise 7 minutes with that speed.

According to the information mentioned above, my personal estimation is that F-22A shall be able to cruise more than one hour with the speed of around 1.2 Mach.

==========================================================

The CAP capability of Typhoon:

A. Eight AAMs and internal fuel only, flying to the area of 463 km away in 20 minutes, intercepting the enemy and then flying back.

B. Eight AAMs and internal fuel only, flying to the area of 463 km away in 25 minutes, CAP for 30 mins and then flying back.

C. Eight AAMs and three external fuel tanks, flying to the area of 463 km away in 30 minutes, CAP for 2 hrs and then flying back.

D. Eight AAMs and three external fuel tanks, flying to the area of 926 km away in 60 minutes, CAP for 1 hr and then flying back.

1. Optimal speed is probably at >35.000 ft, due to cold air.
5. Speed of sound is lower at higher altitude.

A:

That is hard to say, since:

1. We have no idea how the weather was compared with the common day at the day that Gripen Demo showed 1.2 Mach flight capability without A/B. However, the flight test was held in the winter of Sweden, therefore, I think the temperature at that time and place should be much, much colder compared with the average temperature on earth, which should give some advantage for increasing Mach number.

2. According to Wiki:
The stratosphere extends from the troposphere’s 7–17 km (4.3–11 mi; 23,000–56,000 ft) range to about 51 km (32 mi; 170,000 ft). Temperature increases with height.

Therefore, the height (28,000 fts) that Gripen Demo achieved Mach 1.2 might be in the range of stratosphere. If this assumption is true, then the temperature at the height of 36,000 – 40,000 fts+ should be higher, not lower, compared with the temperature at the height of 28,000 fts.

3. We have no idea what payload did the Gripen Demo carry for achieving this supercruising record. So it is not so sure if a single-seat Gripen NG with reasonable combat payload (such as 4 AIM-120 or Meteor + 2 IRIS-T with or without external fuel tanks) shall have a better supercruising performance compared with this achievement.

1. French RAFALE M F1 and RAFALE B/C F2 have fought with HAF’s F-16C/D Block52+ in BVR exercise for several times.

2. French pilots declared that they had had advantage during the exercises, but HAF pilots said that Rafale’s advantage over F-16C/D Block52+ was not so significant, and with the help of APG-68V9, F-16C/D Block52+ still could find and engage Rafale successfully in the BVR distance.

3. We don’t know if the both sides had done their best during the exercise.

4. We had no idea about the final exchange ratio of the these exercises, so we just can’t judge the real meaning and definition of Rafale’s “Not so significant advantage” over F-16C/D Block52+ in BVR exercises.

5. I think the only way to know if HAF has been impressed by Rafale enough is to see whether it decides to order Rafale as its new F-X fighter this year or not. Before that, any argument over this topic can be nothing more than wasting of time, since it seems that no one here knows the full story of BVR exercise between Rafale and F-16C/D Block52+ in the past few years.