I would have to agree……………Also, in what why is a Gripen NG better than say a late blk F-16 except price??? (and I can see many more advantages in the latter)

What kinds of many more advantages have you seen in the late blk F-16?? And what is the range of your definition for the late blk F-16??

The predictive empty weight and thrust of Gripen NG well be very similar to F-16A at least, plusing lower drag, lower wing-loading, and the original agility, these should make Gripen NG to be a very capable and agile fighter in A-A combat.

And if Gripen NG uses the NG F414 engine with the maximal thrust of 26,500 – 27,500 Ibs class finally….well, a fighter with the empty weight that is a little less than F-16A and the thrust that is almost equal to the latest F-16C, and just image what kind of flight capability it shall get.

Gripen NG shall have the internal fuel load that is almost equal to F-16, while its engine’s (F414 series) SFC is around 10-15% lower than the engines that F-16A/B/C/D use, which shall make Gripen NG have a very impressive combat radius and ferry range.

Personally, I think Gripen NG shall become a “Mafia’s fighter of 21th centery”. Just like the role of YF-16／F-16A in 20 centery, it should be an ideal choice for the airforce of small countries that has little or no need of very heavy load + very long range +/- stealthy striking mission and the absolutely air-dominance while facing the threat like hundreds of late Su-27/Mig-29 series……

For anyone who wants to make a comparison between the costs of F-22 and EF-2000

The cost of the plan of Raptor according to the report of Pentagon in 2007/04/09:

F-22A (183 fighters):

Program costs increased $2,692.7 million (+4.3 percent) from $62,600.0 million to $65,292.7 million, due primarily to a revised estimate for the replan of Increments 3.1 and 3.2 (+$1,987.1 million), the additional of funding for the first year of multiyear procurement (+$1,416.5 million), an increase in peculiar support for two operating locations (+$311.1 million), and the application of revised escalation indices (+$197.1 million). These increases were partially offset by reductions in development funding for the modernization program (-$110.0 million), revised estimates for the second and third years of multiyear procurement (-$980.6 million), and an acceleration of the annual procurement buy profile from a 4-year to a 3-year schedule (-$161.1 million).

The total average cost of F-22 per unit: $65,292.7 million / 183 = 356.79 million USD

The cost of the plan of Raptor according to the report of Pentagon in 2008/04/07:

F-35A/B/C (2,443 fighters):

Program costs decreased by $981.3 million (-0.3 percent) from $299,824.1 million to $298,842.8 million, due primarily to the application of revised escalation indices (-$1,955.8 million), lower material estimates because of prime contractor’s material agreements (-$1,650.6 million), and incorporation of revised prime/subcontractor labor rates (-$879.4 million). There was an additional reduction for a revised estimate of support costs (-$7,445.0 million). These decreases were partially offset by higher estimates for elements of procurement nonrecurring costs (+$4,369.0 million), an adjustment to reflect manufacturing actuals for the System Demonstration and Development (SDD) flight test articles (+$3,849.9 million), and a revised propulsion estimate to include additional hardware and increased lift fan cost (+$2,769.1 million). Overall, it should be noted that the Nunn-McCurdy unit costs are stable relative to the current and original baseline estimates.

The total average cost of F-35 per unit: $298,842.8 million / 2443 = 122. 33million USD

THE INDUSTRIAL AND ECONOMIC BENEFITS OF EUROFIGHTER TYPHOON～FINAL REPORT

http://www.eurofighter.com/downloads/Typhoon_study_final.pdf

Professor Keith Hartley

Broadly, the costs of Typhoon production are allocated: 40% for the airframe; 40% for the equipment; and 20% for the engine. Support costs for Typhoon might be a further 50% of production costs. The total costs of Typhoon are estimated (2004 prices):

i) Development = Euros 18 billion

ii) Production (620 aircraft) = Euros 36 billion

iii) Support = Euros 15-18 billion

The total plan cost of Eurofighter: 69-72 billion Euros = $109,020.0 – 115,920.0 million USDs

The total average cost of EF-2K per unit: $109,020.0 – 115,920.0 million / 620 = 175. 84 – 186.97 million USD

PS:
1. One Euro = 1.58 – 1.61 USD in 2008/07.
2. The total average cost: including average R&D, production, and supporting costs of a fighter.

Sorry… off-topic

toan:

I assume those are nautical miles (nm). I think it was bring_it_on who said that USAF goes by 1m^2 target acquisition in nm

LPI mode or normal?

low-end: 1m^2 @ 125 nm -> 230+km
hi-end: 1m^2 @ 150 nm -> 275+km

But I think these are not official data… maybe hints but there is not much for the general public’s consumption regarding the AN/APG-77. Well actually almost everything about the F-22.

So I guess its best to leave F-22 aside…

1. I assume those are miles, and 1 mile = 1.609 km.

2. I think the article means that the target (possibly the target with RCS of around 1m2 class) which can be gotten by F-15’s radar at the range of 56 miles (90 km) away will be gotten by F-22’s radar at the range of 125-150 miles (201-242 km) away.

3. The accurate official data for NG fighters’ radars is very rare, and up to now, I’ve not seen this kind of data for Captor, RBE-2, APG-79, APG-80, APG-81 and so on, not just APG-77. Most datas we can get for NG fighters’ radars’ performance are from the private declaration and description of manufacturers or pilots, and if you have no confidence to their honesty, you won’t believe what they said.

That’s why there are so many American friends here and in F-16 net have accused me of overexaggerating or overhyping the radar performance of CAPTOR-M and Irbis-E, while they seldom have questions or disbelief for the radar performance information I’ve offered for APG-77, APG-79, and APG-81……:D

Hmmm….I have no idea before that USAF and USN are Techno geeks that they just love bright and shiny toys and have little care for the real performance and capability:D

I think it might be true that as for the performance of detective / tracking range and searching angle, Captor M does not need to apologise to other fighter’s radars of similar class or even some bigger ones (BARS, Zhuk series, RBE-2 PESA/AESA, RDY-2/-3, PS-05A +/- AESA, APG-63V1, APG-68V9, APG-73/79, APG-80, and even the APG-63V3/V4 and APG-81………) in the world today, but what’s about other capability such as:

* MTBF and the logistic costs/requirements for radar??

* Beam agility and handling bi-/multi-AA/AG modes at the same time??

* The capability for tracking / engaging multiple targets in the wide range at same time??

* The capability to against ECM and enemy fighters’ maneuver tactics for getting rid of radar’s tracking/locking??

* The potential of playing new tricks, such as high-speed datalink, electronic attacking modes, electronic intelligence collection, and so on??

It is true that many lighter fighters can carry the weapon loads of 7000 – 8000 kg class or even more, but if they want to acquire the similar striking radius of Su-34 with its internal fuel only, then at least 1/2 to 2/3 amount of loads will be external fuel tanks or CFTs.

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=19.0

The prototype is known as CAESAR (Captor AESA Radar) and features an array with a classified number (between 1,000-2,000) of transmit/receive (T/R) modules. Its diameter is “slightly larger” than the mechanically scanned antenna that is now on Captor.

” For cost reasons, the CAESAR array was not fully populated with T/R modules, but approximately 75 per cent.” The flight tests on the BAC One-Eleven involved the radar operating at “limited range but still representative of the full-up system”.

Well, because of the article mentioned above, I think the future CAPTOR-E radar shall have 1000 / 0.75 = 1333 T/R modules at least, and if the number of T/R modules for CAESAR is really near 1,424 unit (a little more or less), then the maximal possible number of T/R modules for future CAPTOR-E radar may even near 1,900 units.

Yeah interesting point…..

…AN/APG-77 details are classified. Only hints/speculations/rumours AKAIK are:

1m^2 target at (In LPI):
Low-end 193km
Hi-end 235+km

But we don’t know the actual details, and probably won’t for quite sometime…

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/aw010807p1.xml

The F-22’s radar range is described only as being more than 100 mi. However, it’s thought to be closer to 125-150 mi., which is much farther than the standard F-15’s 56-mi. radar range. New, active electronically scanned radar technology–optimized for digital throughput–is expected to soon push next-generation radar ranges, in narrow beams, out to 250 mi. or more.