I think this is obvious (actually I don’t think, I know, it happen to have personal experiance when working in manufacturing a French defence system for a co-production program – there were notices on the parts lists for different versions of drawings).

The discussionis is interesting, we hardly ever deal with such topics. So I ll just tell you a little story.

It is very funny to see what is written in defence magazines when a country buys a new weapon. Let’s call it “CLOCK”, and suppose that the current model is -3A. During the annaouncements you hear from both sides (company and country) that the purchase is actually for a BRAND NEW model call it “CLOCK-3A1+ mk2”. Wooooow…. this is what they all say. Impressing isn’t it? But when it comes to real drawings you find from the lists that this super extra fantastic product is actually a mix of features from models -1, -2A, -2B, 3 and 3A.

Let’s also have another imaginery example from a missile called “DISASTER-3000”. The technical data, brochures, bla bla bla… say that the max range is 60 miles. So far so good. However, the officers that operate this missile realise sooner or later when they do some calculations that this missile should have a range of more than 80 miles.

So what they do? Now this is the place for some of the most exciting jobs that exist on earth. Retired officers, engineers that realise after 20 or 30 years hard work it’s better to do smth for themselves rather than for their companies or even university staff that cannot keep their promises that they ll keep the research confidential offer their services .

Is it illegal? I don’t know. What I know is that it does exist. Countries that have a middle technology level and the will to improve their weapons use their services occasionally.

I suppose that when a country wants to buy an aircraft from Dassault, the company directs it to Arme de l’ Air. So the potential customer actually performs the tests with French operational aircrafts. I am pretty sure that both versions of M2000, the -C and the -5 were excelllent during tests with AdlA aircrafts.

The disapointment should have come when they see their own aircrafts. So the reasonable explanation is that the products that the French companies (notice the plural) deliver are less capable than those that stay within the borders of France.

I think this is obvious (actually I don’t think, I know, it happen to have personal experiance when working in manufacturing a French defence system for a co-production program – there were notices on the parts lists for different versions of drawings).

So, my conclusion is that anyone who believes that buying RAFALE would have a top class fighter like the one he sees at French carriers should think of it twice.

It reminds me a little quarrel between a couple in love. Nothing special. All those passerby people (like generals etc) have just made the statement of their life. Nothing more.

With first production units to be completed around 2015 (or something) and the first serious upgrades to start at about 2025 its useless to worry about anything.

Even without bluprints if you have the actual product and you work on it you can develop it the way you like, even if this is software or electronic circuits or mechanical components or material.

Why didn’t both sides ask their engineers first?

…and of course noone can convince me that this a RAF idea. No way, you can feel it that it comes from BAe…

I don’t want to come back to your interesting discussion, however, just to say that in my opinion the best way to get informed about history is to read it from a third party.

So for Dubya and the rest of you I would suggest a book that came to my hands that refers to the period that you mention and it is easy to find in a university library (at least it was in UK) and is not writen by either a Greek or Albanian.

details are: “A Short history of modern Greece”, by Richard Clogg, Cambridge University Press, 1979. Although I saw it many years ago as far as I remember the greeks were more interesting in killing each other than making war to Albania.

yea they do look more liked target drones !.than recon drones.probaly for radar training to stimulate F-117 and tomahark.well still amazing if thoese drone can actually files.

Exactly! The F-117 dosn’t seem to have engine – although we can’t see it in full lenght. Maybe dragged by tomahawks(?) or something.

Anyway, even if the whole scene dosn’t make sense it is very clear which weapons are considered real threat by PLA. OK, they might also have F-16 drones (which I personally doubt) but don’t you guys think that this photo should start a discussion about PLA’s recognision capabilities?

It’s something I haven’t noticed before. Why do they use labels in english? To conform to NATO standards…?(!)

Anyway, it seems that the aircraft in the first set is different from the one of the second set of photos.