black kettleI think you’re right RDC1000….but I didn’t want to be shot down!!!! I am reasonably sure even BA,PanAm and TWA referred to it as Prestwick (Glasgow)
Laker used to call Oakland CA San Francisco!!!Murderous journey involving two lots of surface transport!
It’s all perfectly normal poetic license in business…….why this constant drip, drip of anti feeling against the one outfit that MAY survive against the heavy mob with their (often) State support?
black kettleI didn’t actually say it was branded as Glasgow……….plenty of airports have been rebranded but it WAS for many years effectively a Glasgow airport for long haul as even charters were included in the ban.More interesting to me is why there’d be any problem with it being a Glasgow airport …..many cities would take pride in claiming a second airport some 30 ish miles away and I’m convinced if BA/AA/CO/EK etc suddenly switched there you’d change your tune(s)!!
It’s all to do with this endless anti-loco lobby which seems anti aviation to me.
For decades people applauded the Lakers of this world…..now one or two are too successful,vilification seems to be the theme.
black kettleSorry Kevinwm but your memory must be letting you down because until sometime in the 70s or 80s PIK handled all long haul flights to/from Scotland because the Government banned them from GLA/EDI.I’m sure Glaswegians did,and do,refuse to see it as a Glasgow airport but many elsewhere regard it as such.
As for Malmo,yet again I could hardly complain….I actually went aircraft photographing at Copenhagen using Malmo as the gateway!It’s only minutes across a bridge and the real con is the bridge costs £44 per direction to cross in a hire car!!The plus is Malmo’s miles more interesting for planes than rather boring CPH to which I’ve never returned.
black kettleIt’s refreshing to see so many putting counter arguments this time though no-one has made the point that Frankfurt is OK if one is going to the city of that name but not so good for the,perhaps 75%,who are transiting by surface transport to other towns or scenic areas (Rhine Valley?) in the area.That’s where the likes of Hahn score and I suggest it’s presumptuous to assume people don’t know where the airport is.
However,taking the AF A320 as the quoted example,here’s the real rub,as they say……..the mainstream carriers DO NOT offer a much better experience and you’re no less likely to be among ruffians than on EZ or FR.Stripping out the extras to pare costs to the same levels is simply driving more people away to the lo-cost competitors.Vicious circle that I think most analysts know can only spell the end of the line for premium short haul in Europe and beyond.I believe some airports will rue the day they repelled the budget carriers,indeed Paul Kehoe (CEO at BHX) has already said that.
black kettleRen Frew….no prob mate….it’s all in good spirit I trust but I can’t help feeling if you’re right that any airline CEO who can give Boeing,for God’s sake, with all their clout,a run for their money then he must be b****y impressive!
Does no-one applaud success?
I actually think the lo-co revolution MAY run out of steam in years to come if only as people lose the urge to travel “just because it’s cheap” and I wouldn’t lose sleep if FR were a casualty,but I think anyone who thinks MOL isn’t better at being the one who “turns the lights out” long after the others have perished is seriously underestimating him.
Barry
black kettleDeano…….hint of snobbery,eh,if you’ll pardon me saying so.
Like Moggy C I’m even more intrigued at how a news story about FR’s astonishing six month result, followed by MOL saying they’d spend a period of retrenchment if they couldn’t buy planes at low prices, became “Ryanair holding gun to Boeing’s Head”
I also believe the average FR captain has pay around £30,000 pa HIGHER than EZ so who’s screwing costs for flight crew?
I am not a chav but if you think your own airline carries any less of them,we’re heavily into the realms of delusion!
Barry
black kettleHere we go again.We are talking about the same Boeing are we?…..you know…the one that would be the only major world player if some EEC countries hadn’t backed Airbus and the one that for years paid huge sums to “block” EU imports and also saw off McDD?
No chance we could applaud great financial results from a Country closer to home rather than sticking up for the Yanks who treat us like s..t,I suppose?
Barry
black kettleI think you’re thinking of Orion Air who I believe did a season from MAN/LGW for Thomas Cook and every flight was half a day late at best!
Barry
black kettleSkymonster
I understand your point but the problem is that all the lo-cos have been set up by entrepreneurs whereas many airports are owned (or were) by the taxpayer or council tax payers,many later handed on a plate to private enterprise….. a bit like good old BA.Many are badly run from a commercial standpoint by useless management teams which you can hardly say about FR or EZ/BE/Jet 2 for that matter.
That’s why people grudgingly admire them and don’t feel as luvvy duvvy about airports.
Barry
black kettlePaul
I may be guilty of not explaining my point properly.I’m not saying the allocated seats is a major obstacle.The comment about the airport experience wasn’t related to this or to FR in any way.
What I’m trying to say is that everyone I know who finds air travel increasingly traumatic thinks the treatment they get at airports makes the low cost airlines look like angels,whether they’re flying to an FR airport or from LHR with major international outfits.
By that I refer to exorbitant car park fees,exorbitant catering prices,surly or offensive security “jobsworths”, long waits for car park shuttles,delayed gate allocations to trap punters in the shopping area,increasingly longer passport queues with hardly a hint of concern…….the list goes on.These are what I hear people really bleating about.Most seem resigned to the “you get what you pay for” behaviour of FR and other locos.
And yet…..on this forum there seems to be a suggestion airports are wonderful do-gooders being robbed by Dick “Turpin” O’Leary.
Who’s kidding who?
Barry
black kettleI tried to avoid contributing!
Who cares whether anyone is right or wrong about RYR or MOL?
It’s true however that EZ and others also have “hidden” opt outs for insurance,massively overcharge for credit/debit cards and EI have only a week or so ago been criticised for building in a “handling” fee which can only be removed at a late stage by inputting an Electron number!
No,what really annoys me is that too many of the detractors on THIS forum work for other airlines or airports.
I’ve flown FR,EZ and BE in recent weeks and after a previous post deliberately asked friends,family and business colleagues for opinions.Universally the biggest criticism of FR (from those actually taking a flight with them!!) is the lack of allocated seating and the resultant bun fight but EVERY person including my wife has said the AIRPORT experience is far worse than the flight and single out UK ones more than the overseas arr/dep point.
Rightly or wrongly there is a perception outside this forum that people like MOL are championing the punter against airports building “palaces” by shafting the airlines and that Government and airports are making flying an ordeal,so think on…..
Barry
black kettlePaul
We haven’t always agreed but we do on this one.If everyone had posted a measured response like this to the news,I’d never have posted.
On a separate note I also share your “recent” change of heart re RYR particularly over the online check in fee and what you may not know (I’ve not seen any press coverage) is they’ve now started measuring onboard baggage at the gate.It’s allowed thro x-ray which means it’s now security cleared so they have someone with a book of e30 tickets charging you to put it in the hold.Monstrous and clearly a pure revenue scam!!Also the bag drop idea is a disaster……took my brother 50 mins at BRS yesterday,nearly missing flight.
But,I still say……aircraft enthusiasts wishing airlines to go bust?……..God help us all!
Are you really sure the Aer Arann/RYR situation was not just a case of both trying and failing?Plenty of airlines pull routes…EZY and LH to name two at Bristol without always giving them a fair time IMHO.
Barry
black kettleAndy
I couldn’t fault a word strangely,if it weren’t in this forum.The snag is (as I’ve said in a PM to another contibutor) that AW is an enthusiast’s magazine and,yes,I’m a 63 year old avid photographer though not a spotter so patently my interest is in seeing as much variety as possible and,to some extent,getting to the material as cheaply as possible.That’s what several do with their motor insurance and that shopping around probably cost me my job with a VERY major player a decade ago.However I don’t use every opportunity to dish the dirt on Direct Line,or whoever, on an unconnected forum.
I know you’re all passionate about the business and probably some are involved in it….that’s what worries me! Is no-one interested in the planes?
I actually agree with much of the sentiment re RYR v MAN Airport but cannot believe the stream of vitriol that followed speculating on whether it was the end of the road for RYR or what campaign of words MOL would launch against the airport.
Given that the airport has lost more routes recently than most UK airports and (without much press coverage) limited the opening hours of it’s much vaunted second runway,I’d have thought they could ill afford this latest loss.
However,I’d admire them for not being intimidated by RYR though I suspect being host to other lo-cos probably meant they had to do what they did.
I only ever respond when there’s this “war” on RYR and would probably agreed if others had simply made similar comments.
Barry:)
black kettleInterfug IL62m (IL18 was better)
Everything you say is true essentially…..the problem is I know only too well how all these airlines ended because that side of it is more of a fascination almost than the planes.Clearly some were badly run but without exception they all suffered from protectionism to the flag carriers and were left picking up the ad hoc charter “crumbs”.
What I can’t come to terms with is how,on an aviation enthusiast’s site for God’s sake,people seem so keen to knock the very entrepreneurial talents you admire from the “old days”.I’m no keener on MOL’s scams than anyone else at times,but I rather like the little outfit (‘cos that’s what RYR was at the outset) taking on the establishment and winning in any business.
I can understand why industry insiders would be hostile like small shops are to supermarkets but what the hell has MOL or any lo-co operator done to aircraft enthusiasts or as importantly what have BA and their EEC equivalents done FOR enthusiasts or regional airports?
Thats the nub of the niggle and I don’t need to stress all in good humour as far as I am concerned,
Barry
black kettleHi all you guys.I feel there is a fundamental misunderstanding here.I am not a RYR cheer leader though I suspect MOL is not personally the sleazy character he pretends…indeed I believe he has a first class economics degree.I also know £12 to Hahn is not in itself sustainable but it is if others who perhaps book nearer the date pay £150.It’s price management and Southwest have made it work for years in the US.
The point is I AM hostile to the airlines you all seem to prefer and,with respect,question how many are old enough to REALLY know the scale of the number of UK airlines that tried to compete with them against a brick wall of government protection similar to that which still exists for Iberia,Alitalia etc.
British Eagle
Channel Airways
Hunting Clan
Laker…………to name some…….get the history books that cover the 1950s 60s and 70s and then tell me RYR is the first to be cut throat….or ask Sir Michael Bishop what he thinks of the behaviour of European “flag” carriers in the past.
I think MOL is simply being seen as a “monster” and I bet he takes the view any publicity is better than none
Barry
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