freter12The US has lasers that can shoot down artillery shells (MTHEL). In other words, not very well at all.
Why not very well? I think China should have something comparable. What else is that Laser shown for except to shoot down SOMETHING.
freter12???? :confused: :confused:
fantastic. what r lasers used for? how do chinese fare against usa in laser research?
freter12Even if LCA succeeds India will be still be buying foreign aircraft as LCA is not more capable than MIG-21UPG (offcourse Russian upgrade).
I dont’ know about that, but the LCA is IMHO inferior to the J10 because it’s frame is smaller, and has a weaker engine. Avionics, electronics can always be upgraded and improved, but you can’t increase the frame or engine without gutting the entire structure and start from scratch.
The importance of the LCA is in what it will do for the Indian aviation industry in terms of confidence, and knowledge, not in it’s inherent capabilities since they already have a front line fighter.
If the LCA fails, India really has no future at all, or it’s future will be delayed by decades.
freter12i asked you to do your research properly and yet you come back with empty air.
see the problem is we have seen waaayyyyy too many like you. so it really is a headache trying to refute basic facts over and over and over. it gets repetitive and frankly is quite frustrating. people speaking out of their rear ends doesn’t really qualify them to be considered for a serious discussion.
i am again requesting you to go and do your research. the fact that you think India has only one major project (LCA) out there further proves my point. you really are wasting time here.
see the problem is we have seen waaayyyyy too many like you. so it really is a headache trying to refute basic facts over and over and over. it gets repetitive and frankly is quite frustrating. people speaking out of their rear ends doesn’t really qualify them to be considered for a serious discussion.
i am again requesting you to go and do your research. the fact that you think India has only one major project (LCA) out there further proves my point. you really are wasting time here.
The LCA is the Indian equivalent to the Chinese J10. If it succeeds, it will be the basis for future Indian aviation projects such as the MCA. If it fails, it will set back the industry for many years. The LCA’s fate isn’t determined yet. It’s progress is slow. The Kaveri’s fate is also unknown. Other collaborations with Russia are equally unknown. It’s fair to say, the LCA is India’s only hope for indigenous capability.
China HAS succeeded with it’s J10. And that’s why they can move forward INDIGENOUSLY with advanced versions of it’s J10 (A, B, C, etc). That’s why they can have reasonable confidence in their future Stealth projects such as JXX. They have confidence in their growing abilities in every aspect of aviation, from radars to engines to avionics. They have positive momentum, and their future looks good.
India is another question altogether. If the LCA fails, India will be buying foreign aircrafts for many years while China INDIGENOUSLY produces JXX and future advanced generations.
freter12i am not the ones making retarded claims here. you are. so kindly prove it. as i asked in my last post how do you decide that the entire chinese aviation industry is ahead of India’s entire aviation industry.
do you even know what an aviation industry consists of? they are ahead in some fields no doubt. but in some fields only. but ofcourse mine are opinions. your arew facts 😀
you seem to have done extensive research to reach such a conclusion.see what i mean? you are entirely clueless. now how does anyone go about debating with someone like you? get your facts right kid. and for god’s sake go do some reading. i aint wasting my time with a 13 yr old clueless kid.
i never said it was stronger or weaker. infact there is no basis to decide such a thing. if you havent noticed already the two countries have taken different paths altogether. so you see a comparison is not easy at all.
and hats off to them for that.
that hardly means anything. how you go about making something is a different process altogether.
we will see when that happens.
in the same league with regard to what? you really are clueless arent you?
LOL. Typical response from Wolverine. You are incapable of replying back with cogent arguments for your Indian aviation industry. All you have are your stupid taunts, yet you call ME 13?
Kiddo, you can’t fashion even a paragraph that doesn’t reek of Insecurity or Spite. You’ve got more problems than I thought.
So forget my first request from you. Clearly now, arguing with facts is beyond your abilities since the state of your mind is somewhat in suspect.
What I request now is that you seek some immediate psychiatric help because it is CLEAR to me that you have some deep, emotional troubles. LOL.
freter12how so is the entire aviation industry more advanced than India’s?
do you take everything into account? or do you simply like to make baseless conclusions because China started earlier? aviation is a braod concept. and you simply cannot say that one country is outright superior to the other.
by claiming this you only show your lack of understanding of aviation in general and Chinese and Indian Aviation industries.
your statements are as empty as the village clown Golden Dragon’s. Another one to add to the countless gems of Golden Cow. All aviation projects in India are headed by HAL :D.
neither of you understands the basics before blabering. get a clue from crobato and learn to research before yapping.if you like the facts to speak for themselves then i dont see how FC1 even measures upto to knee height of LCA. a J10 is a much more comparable contemporary to LCA.
This is not flaming either. its called FACTS 😀
Funny, nothing you just stated is factual at all. Not one sentence. They are 100% opinions and the kind of snide remarks that reeks of insecurity and perhaps jealousy. It makes Indians look like immature boys among the nations of men.
If you want to redeem yourself, try presenting a FACTUAL argument on WHY China’s aviation is NOT superior to India’s. Refute my statements based on FACT instead of throwing a temper tantrums.
China has many projects in it’s pipeline. India has just one. If the LCA fails, you guys will be set back many decades, and forced to buy foreign planes. If the LCA fails to materialize, your dreams of the MCA and beyond are just that. Dreams.
For an aviation that is supposedly superior or even equal to China’s, it’s position is inarguably weaker, isn’t it?
China has the J10, JF17, JH7/A, J8s, J11s, and countless variations of the J7. And they are working on unknown # of projects that improve upon these designs, and/or new projects altogether (JXX). They have several TurboFans that are nearing completion or have completed.
Outside of the USA, no other country has more activity in Aviation than China.
And if the EU votes to drop the embargo, you can bet that China’s progression will accelerate even more. Even without EU help, China is on a course that is unalterable. They are going to match/exceed the west within a few decades.
Given the clear evidence compiled throughout these threads, I can’t imagine how anyone can argue that India is in the same league with China.
freter12So if understand correctly J-10 is an enlarged Lavi ??
Please read the existing threads about the J-10 to learn more about it. To call this major Chinese achievement an “enlarged Lavi” does not do it justice.
freter12freter:
Thanks but no thanks for your unsolicited advice. I know that you might have trouble understanding English else I would have asked you to point out exactly where I put down the Chinese aviation industry. But I know that there is no point asking you since you will come up with big words like ‘insecurity’, ‘defensive’ etc. whose meanings you don’t seem to understand.
In any case, this is my last post on this thread, whether anybody replies to this or not.
Have a good time discussing the FC-1 if you wish. I am out of here. However, if you flame, be ready for it to be pointed out to you.
Insecurity and Defensive are not “big” words. But they effectively describe your fellow countrymen well who have derided China’s aviation industry although India’s is inferior.
I don’t have a problem with Indians, but I do have problems with these cheap smear tactics to falsely deride the achievements on a country that has for the majority of it’s existence, had to rely on it’s indigenous talent, and when it’s efforts are finally coming to fruition in the J-10 and JF17, some jerk has the nerve to dismiss it as “crap”. It makes Indians everywhere look bad.
India would do well to mind it’s own business, and work hard on its J10 (LCA)so that it can match China’s achievements in Aviation and beyond.
freter12Wow
The LCA, ALH and IJT come from HAL (BTW, LCA comes from ADA but leave that aside) while Chengdu, Hongdu etc. are separate units. So if HAL-Bangalore were to name itself as simply Bangalore, HAL-Nasik as Nasik, HAL-Koraput as simply Koraput etc., its depth and breadth would instantaneously increase?
And since when did export enquiries become a criterion to judge quality? The FC-1 will be exported (at least to PAF if not others) while the J-10 is unlikely to be exported for the next few years because domestic requirements will be fulfilled first. So the FC-1 is superior to the J-10? Wow, I didn’t know that.
For the record, I don’t underestimate the Chinese aircraft industry’s achievements. Further, there is good potential ahead. But by flaming, you only undermine your own case and reduce the credibility of whatever you wish to communicate. I didn’t say that to Crobato. In the post in reply to my questions, he simply answered them and I simply thanked him.
You can open your mouth but your general tone overall is defensive, and reeks of insecurity, and though you claim you don’t flame, you and your other countrymen have trouble accepting GD’s basic inarguable point and by putting down China’s aviation industry’s progress (which is more advanced than India’s), this is in form and spirit, flaming. If you want to show that you have sincere intentions, please open your mouth no more, and let the matter rest.
freter12Golden Dragon:
I dislike pi$$ing contests, that you appear to like, and do not participate in them as a rule. But would you say that I am flaming when I ask you to look at the following two pictures
http://www.strange-mecha.com/aircraft/Ente/lavi.jpg
and
http://www.airwar.ru/image/i/fighter/j10.jpgand claim that the developer of the first ‘handed over’ the plans for the first plane to the so-called indigenous developer of the second? And that because of this and because the engine of the second fighter is Russian, this ‘so-called indigenous plane’ is actually an Israeli-Russian plane?
BTW, I would also suggest you look up the dimensions of the BK117 and the Dhruv (leave alone other characteristics). Just the length and the height would suffice. Nice photos incidentally.
That’s a lame, tired, rehashed argument used by biased individuals to tarnish China’s indigenous efforts in the J-10. Please read the threads that have covered this many, many times so as to not apppear uninformed on this matter.
Any argument that the J-10 is entirely based on the Lavi is wrong.
I’ve been reading this thread and I have to say that most of the rebuttals by Indians are nothing more than agitations about geniune Chinese progress. Nobody is claiming China is equal to the West, (yet) but apart from the West, and Russia, China is the only other nation with experience in building planes from scratch. Therefore, the main point GD and others have made is that China and Indian aviation industries should not be compared to as equals because they are definitely not. And I think he is right. After all, China is the third nation to launch human beings into outer-space. India can set lofty goals to visit the moon by 2010 or whatever, but clearly they are behind the Chinese in Aviation Industry. And any attempts to refute and slander Chinese achievements is based on a deep insecurity by the Indians, and nothing more.
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