nettaJudging from the blue maintenance truck in front of it and the personnel standing behind it, it’s not unduly large. In fact, I would say it is no bigger than a Flanker…..
Dear sir,
Is it just me or did both the Chinese and the Russians give up on all aspect stealth? This plane would make a decent interceptor and might be good front the frontal aspect, but the rear doesn’t look stealthy. Do diverterless intakes have speed limits?
netta2]Politics almost always overrules economy unfortunately.
3] neuron, taranis, ring a bell ?
4]Not until after 2030+ sometime
5] In 15-20 years, it’s time to design a new fighter, because as you say,
anything being built today is obsolete by then.
Do you really see neuron and Tanaris doing air superiority? there designs say that they are stealthy Sead/bomb truck platforms. They may be able to take on Last generation airframes, but they give up Kinematics for loiter. I was thinking more in the lines of a F-22,T-50, J-X, F-35, equivalent either manned or unmanned. 2030 feels like the end of this generation. Are the Europeans comfortable with this?
nettaYes, i thought you made a typo, but apparently you don’t know Astra is a AAM,
just like AMRAAM.
Hint: Neither missile will ever fly anywhere close to 150 km, primarily because a cooperative target closing in at M1.5 is imagined in this example.
If your in a F-35 or F-22 that’s launching at mach 1.5 then the closing speed is accurate.
netta..fail to see the connection with our topic..
Says who?
What’s the comparison between Rivet Joint and SPECTRA, BTW?First of all, I realize that you know exactly ZERO about all these systems. You just want to “demonstrate” the superiority of the ALR based on some idea that if EADS or Dassault don’t boast their DASS/Spectra over the ALR, then it is surely because they are oh so inferior. On the other hand, if BAe don’t boast their ALR over the DASS, then it is because they don’t want to hurt fragile Euro-Anglo-Saxon feelings..
This eternal “my Made in USA d!ck is bigger than yours” is so damn pathetic.. I have yet to think about a single American screw that was not yet claimed being so much superior to your crappy European/Russian/Chinese screw on this forum.
You Yanks are just too good for this pothole of a planet if I think of it.. 😎
Dear sir,
Do you know what it means when you hate something simply because its better? heres a hint A feeling of discontent and resentment aroused by and in conjunction with desire for the possessions or qualities of another. Now you will tell me that the F-117, B-2, the F-22. Didn’t influence fighter design? Im sure that even now anyone can build a F-35 or a F-22 or a B-2 at 1/2 the price of the capitalist pig Americans:rolleyes:. The worst part about it is. Some of non Americans think anything they build is superior to the Russians, and yet they have never won a war in the last 100 years either Using the same American Kit they hate or using American lives.
These rants are pathetic.
nettaOK we have ferry range and combat radius
someone has to break down which regime has how many external tanks because they don’t always give the figures ( how convenient)
Typhoon
* Fuel capacity: 4,500 kg (9,920 lb) internal[194]Performance
* Maximum speed:
o At altitude: Mach 2 (2,495 km/h, 1,550 mph)[196][197][198]
o At sea level: Mach 1.2[193] (1,470 km/h / 913.2 mph)[199]
o Supercruise: Mach 1.1–1.5[191][200]
* Range: 2,900 km (1,802 mi)
* Combat radius:
o Ground attack, lo-lo-lo: 601 km (325 nmi)
o Ground attack, hi-lo-hi: 1,389 km (750 nmi)
o Air defence with 3-hr CAP: 185 km (100 nmi)
o Air defence with 10-min loiter: 1,389 km (750 nmi) [201][194]
* Ferry range: 3,790 km (2,30F-35
* nternal fuel capacity: 18,480 lb (8,382 kg)[nb 6]Performance
* Maximum speed: Mach 1.6+[84] (1,200 mph, 1,930 km/h)
* Range: 1,200 nmi (2,220 km) on internal fuel
* Combat radius: over 590 nmi[nb 7] (1,090 km) on internal fuel[212]
* Service ceiling: 60,000 ft[213] (18,288 m)
* Rate of climb: classified (not publicly available)
* Wing loading: 91.4 lb/ft² (446 kg/m²)
* Thrust/weight:
o With full fuel: 0.87
o With 50% fuel: 1.07
Dear gentlemen
We keep going on in on in circles and on different tangents with very little of meaningful discussion. Can we please deal with some hard facts? In the information mentioned above we have some things missing.
1. Someone break down which profile for the Typhoons uses what amount of wing tanks.
2. 2 Why isn’t there a ferry range listed for the F-35?
3. can you please explain the Hi-Lo hi profile of the EF? and how the range jumps from 300 Miles to 700.
nettaDear sir,
The F-35 will have blue force tracker, SAR mapping ( for ground), and IRST, to Id a target. BVR combat will not be a problem.
nettaDear sir,
The 1st group of 6 is dead from the 100% kill ratio of 6 Amraaams, right? If the F35 prefers not to engage further, how is it going to fight the next 2? By not fighting them?
You mean that the F35 will manage to pass undetected from the 2 other aircrafts and go to 6 o’clock and gun kill them? It’s true, i hadn’t thought of it. I hope it’s really stealth, because unless they keep flying on a tight pair on a straight line like morons, i think the F35 will have a bit difficulty to avoid being detected to come close enough to gun kill them while they are unaware. I ‘d think they ‘d be sweeping the largest sector of sky possible. But i ‘ve seen once a film with Clint Eastwood called “Firefox” with some pretty amazing things, so maybe it can be done too.
Dear sir,
If 4 of your buddies blow up from amraam hits I trust that you are not gonna stay on the same track.
Here is how the Raptor does it
The F-22 is proving it’s a dogfighter after all.
While it wasn’t part of a hard-turning furball, an F-22–with its Amraams and Sidewinders expended–slipped into visual range behind an F-16 and undetected made a simulated kill with its cannon during the stealth fighter’s first large-scale exercise and deployment outside the continental U.S.
Those and other revelations about the F-22’s emerging capabilities are increasingly important as the first combat unit, the U.S. Air Force’s 27th Fighter Sqdn., begins its initial Air Expeditionary Force deployment this month to an undisclosed site. And the first F-22 unit, the 94th Fighter Sqdn., will participate in Red Flag in February.
The gun kill is a capability Air Force planners hope their F-22s won’t use. The fighter is designed to destroy a foe well beyond his visual and radar range. Within visual-range combat and, in particular, gun kills are anachronisms. In amassing 144 kills to no losses during the first week of the joint-service Northern Edge exercise in Alaska last summer, only three air-to-air “kills” were in the visual arena–two involving AIM-9 Sidewinders and one the F-22’s cannon
nettaDear sir,
can someone break down the various H-lo mixes for the Typhoon. How many tanks for each regime?
@msphere Maybe the reason that most users will use the F-35 for a2g is becasue.
1. Its valuable in that it can go where a typhoon cannot.
2. it can do the Typhoons job but the Typhoons cannot do the F-35s JOB.
3.The plane is optimized for A2G :rolleyes:
4. To my knowledge the Only countries buying both planes are Italy and the U.K. and they are both buying them o fly off carriers. can the Typhoon fly off a carrier? your really grasping for straws.
nettaThis is why i can’t wait for the countries that will get both EF and F35 to finally come out with some internal evaluations and see where the marketing PR stops and reality begins.
How is the F35 able to simultaneously fight at least 8 enemy planes?
Assuming 100% kill rate for the 6 AMRAAMs shot one against each opponent, how is it going to kill the at least 2 more enemy aircrafts? With 2 additional AIM-9X with again 100% kill rate? In that case i have my doubts about its ability to maintain stealth long enough to come into AIM-9X range without taking enemy shots. With guns? Somehow i don’t believe that 1 F-35 with guns will shoot down 2 enemy aircrafts that will probably be carrying missiles. Unless the enemy aircrafts are F4s and even then it will have to really be quick before the 2nd one come at its 6 o’clock.
If we take the “at least” literally and start thinking about… 10 aircrafts, i must really strain my imagination to imagine how this will happen.
Dear sir,
Its simple after the 1st group is dead from a amraam shot the F-35 can either contempt of engage or try and sneak onto there rear for a gun shot. if you cant see the F-35 it will be difficult to point your nose and get a radar signal on it.
nettaA few things are missing
1. There is no ferry range on the F-35 listed.
2. I dont know how many wing tanks are used for each Hi-lo Mixx on the typhoon.
3. The Internal capacity of the F-35 is twice that of the Typhoon, so its safe to assume that the typhoons uses wing tanks to achieve close to the range of the F-35.
nettaOK we have ferry range and combat radius
someone has to break down which regime has how many external tanks because they don’t always give the figures ( how convenient)
Typhoon
* Fuel capacity: 4,500 kg (9,920 lb) internal[194]
Performance
* Maximum speed:
o At altitude: Mach 2 (2,495 km/h, 1,550 mph)[196][197][198]
o At sea level: Mach 1.2[193] (1,470 km/h / 913.2 mph)[199]
o Supercruise: Mach 1.1–1.5[191][200]
* Range: 2,900 km (1,802 mi)
* Combat radius:
o Ground attack, lo-lo-lo: 601 km (325 nmi)
o Ground attack, hi-lo-hi: 1,389 km (750 nmi)
o Air defence with 3-hr CAP: 185 km (100 nmi)
o Air defence with 10-min loiter: 1,389 km (750 nmi) [201][194]
* Ferry range: 3,790 km (2,30
F-35
* nternal fuel capacity: 18,480 lb (8,382 kg)[nb 6]
Performance
* Maximum speed: Mach 1.6+[84] (1,200 mph, 1,930 km/h)
* Range: 1,200 nmi (2,220 km) on internal fuel
* Combat radius: over 590 nmi[nb 7] (1,090 km) on internal fuel[212]
* Service ceiling: 60,000 ft[213] (18,288 m)
* Rate of climb: classified (not publicly available)
* Wing loading: 91.4 lb/ft² (446 kg/m²)
* Thrust/weight:
o With full fuel: 0.87
o With 50% fuel: 1.07
nettaBut wait netta I didn’t ask if the amount of fuel was similar did I? I asked if the range figures on internal fuel were similar. The Typhoon carries about 4900 kg of fuel or 4900 * 2.206 = ~10810 lb. But what is relevant is range not fuel surely?
I got mixed, up the max range forthe Ef is with external tanks
nettaWhy? If you look at the range figures on internal its fairly similar?
No internal fuel on the F-35 is close to 18k.
The Ef about 6k ill check figures when I’m off mobile.
netta@lightening
Dear sir,
Thats irrelevant the fuel load and laser remain in a2a and a2g that’s why its apples oranges.
nettaDear sir,
If your going to compare F- 35 to EF, the Typhoon needs all external tanks + weapons.
You might wanna throw on a targeting pod also.
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