HJP[QUOTE=glitter;1092422]
No competition in Greece and saudi Arabia, only selection.
What competition in Netherlands are you referring to ?
In Norway, even Dassault said since the very beginning that NOrway wanted EF2000 or JSF
Victory in Singapore ? Well …
Yeap, I agree for the tip referring to Greece. There was NEVER any short of a competition between Rafale & EF TYPHOON, here. Mr Kostas Simitis’ PASOK Government, has decided to negotiate Greece participation in the development programme of Eurofighter back in June of 1999 but eventually, due to the cost of the preparation for the Olympics held later on 2004, as well as, cause of the political pressure deriving from US and LM, postponed its participation in the EF programme. Mr Kostas Karamanlis’ Nea Dimokratia Government that came into power on March 2004, never shown any true intent of participation in EF programme. Instead, it decided to go on for an additional 30 F16 block 52+ Advanced for the replacement of its F-4 SRA (South Regional Agreement) Phantoms. Initially, Greece was scheduled to purchase 60 jets with an option of 30 more. Nowadays, Dassault is back and Rafale is a true contestant to an unofficial undergoing procurement programme for a number of 30-40 aircrafts. Dassault, has brought Rafale to Greece for show purposes back in 2005 during the Archagel Airshow (held at Tanagra AFB). EADS was there too and TYPHOON competed Rafale in a beautiful and skillful demonstration of manouevring etc. Dassault, brought also its Rafale for co-training with Hellenic F16 blk52+ two times. Greeks have closed ties with Dassault. EAB (Hellenic Airspace Industry) upgrades some (10 actually) of the existing Mirage 2000 to -5mk2 variants. Greece, is also receiving another 15 -5 mk2’s. EAB also participates in NEURON programme. Greece owned also during the past Mirage F1. So, if there will ever be some short of a competition, Dassault might be a little bit favoured by the Greeks. Nonetheless, HAF officials seem to prefer a US made candidancy (like F-35). The reason, simple. POLITICS.
PS: I’ve read lately in a local defence magazine that EADS might increase its stake in Dassault. If that’s true, I would be more than curious to see how HAF will react.
HJPYeah, sure…There are some 20 squadrons in USAF (F 16 CCIP, F 15 C in Elmendorf, Langley, Lakenheat, Nellis) and USN (F 18 C/D/E/F) that use JHMCS/9X. That combo had IOC in 2003…
Tell that I am wrong but I believe that those people refered to scepticism over the newJHMCS, not the one that even the HAF uses on its 59 F16 blk 52+. Of course, US armed forces employ for some time now the JHMCS otherwise how could such a system be already in service even with HAF. I guess, the “noise” refered to the new edition of the helmet. As far as the A2A missile, Turks are already in the process of getting it for their CCIP F16s… So, these short of thoughts (that appeared in the form of a RUMOR-as usual) may well lie over sources of knowledge that I lack or are just excuses (maybe silly ones) to discredit a candidate jet. As a private individual, however,I cannot be in the mind of HAF’s officers. The only thing I can suspect, is that the problem arises somewhere within the current contract with DIEHL. All the rest are craps. Yet, I must admit that I was unaware, as I suppose that many other Greek aviation funs are, about the number of squadrons in US able to carry the combo of JHMCS/9X. Personally, I have bibliography and articles that confirm 4 only.
HJPMAR 12TH/’07, ATHENS
According to articles published on local defence Press, EADS has assigned EAB (Hellenic Airspace Industry) with the role of the subcontractor for parts that will be used on the latest editions of the EF TYPHOON. This movement, can be well considered as an attempt to promote the aircraft to HAF, especially by leaving some hopes for industrial participation (via offset programmes etc.) through local companies, both state owned and private. So far, Boeing has not announced any official proposal over its F18 E/F.
HJPFEB 11/07, ATHENS
Last Friday unofficial reports came to light, reports that were relevant to the Boeing’s representatives proposals over the configuration of the F18 variants offered to Greece. According to them, HAF officials were presented with an F18 E model that among others, would be capable for the use of the new Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS) in relation to the new AIM-9X Sidewinder. The Greeks, was said to be really sceptic about this, since the new JHMCS is not yet in use with USAF or USN (it is said that only the 18th squadron in Eielson Base at Alaska has received it for its F16) and last but not least, because the Hellenic Airforce uses the IRIS-T (Infra Red Imaging System Tail/Thrust Vector-Controlled) and due to its contract with Diehl BGT Defence is not allowed to proceed with the purchase of Sidewinder AIM-9X! Moreover, HAF is considering to acquiring an additional 120 IRIS-T within the years to come for its 30 F16 Blk52+ Advanced (currenlty under production), leaving actually no money for another similar weapon purchase… not to mention (that even if there were no restrictions imposed by Diehl BGT) such an act would be a considerable cost due to the maintance & logistic support of a new A2A missile…
If these reports are veryfied, then Boeing has lost some additional points here among its contestants for the new (yet not officially announced) procurement programme.
HJPDoes anybody know if F18 E/F uses fiber optics like F16 block 60 or has common military standard hurnesses for data transfer etc.? By the way, can someone tell me how much protection can an aircraft as F18 E/F offer against microwaves and EMP weapons? Thanks.:confused:
HJPThank you djcross and Kilcoo316 for the tips. Taking the opportunity, I would like to ask you how probable you think it is to see some day soon the Super Hornet with conformal fuel tanks like those of latest f16 bloks and the ones tested over the Rafale recently? What about the aerodynamics if such a scenario gets implemented?
Thank you
HJPDear djcross,
How similar do you think X-45, X-47 and nEuron are? Do you believe that the technology embeded on the X-47 and nEuron project could be of some use if parts of it were employed in the desigh of the F18 E/F wings? Could it be possible that some short of a redesign over the airframe of the Super Hornet, would deliver a most capable aircraft, especially now that potential clients like HAF and Indian Airforce appear and companies like LM, EADS & Dassault contest too?
Thank U
HJPFEB 8th/07, ATHENS
As usual, another rumor, relating to the (yet) unofficial new HAF procurement programme, spread out yesterday, following that of LM proposition for the additional purchase of 10 F16 block 52+…
According to this, Dassault is about to offer RAFALE with conformal fuel tanks, AESA redar (currently under development by THALES and French DGA oversight) and M88-3 engines (I don’t know how they even can propose that since to the best of my knowledge, Snecma hasn’t proceed with the development of this edition of the M88-2)… Shall we suspect that Dassault refers to a time table that would allow deliveries of aircrafts somewhere between 2012-2014? Dassault, was said to have offered the possibility of a cooproduction of these aircrafts with EAB (HELLENIC AIRSPACE INDUSTRY)… Dassault, has close ties with EAB (EAB particpates even in the NEURON programme, not to mention that of the upgraded HAF’s Mirage 2000 EGMs to 2000-5mk2 edition…). Dassault, also might thinks that Boeing has not the ability to provide considerable offsets to the Greek Governemt, especially now that a possibly sale may include a small number of aircraft (30-40 units)… From what it looks, Dassault will appear as a strong contestant if there ever be any official contest…
PICS of RAFALE B with CFT, F16D blk 60 & HAF’s F16D blk 52+
HJP7th FEB 07 (Athens)
Yesterday, there was a rumor that LM offered to sell an additional number of 10 F16 block 52+ advanced, as part of the undergoing Peace Xenia IV FMS programme. Representatives from the Hellenic Airspace Industry (also know as EAB) have been visiting lately LM industrial places in US and had briefings with senior LM officials, as well as USAF senior staff. EAB is the key local subcontractor for LM. If this rumor turns out to be the case, then the most probable scenario for the new HAF procurement programme will refer to the purchase of either a European aircraft like Rafale & EF2000 to numbers that won’t exceed 40 units or the JSF for numbers of aprox. 60 units (when that becomes available around 2015). A combination of aircrafts is also possible (Greece actually has a tradition to split its procurements among participant companies) but in that case one must suspect that the European aircraft would be the Rafale (mostly taking into accoutn the fact that Dassault has a strong presence in Greece for at least 30 years now). No matter what, it seems that the chances for F18 E/F are being mnimized… Boeing, can look forward to Australia…
HJPWhat is your first impressions when comparing the cockpits of Rafale, Eurofighter, F/A-18 E/F, Mirage 2000-5mk2 and F16 Block52+? What are the main pros and cons of each single one of them? Please, spare few moments and share your views.
pics from left to right: RAFALE cockpit, E/F TYPHOON cockpit, Mirage 2000-5mk2 Glass Cockpit and (bottom left) F16 (later editions) cockpit. All pics come from interent sources.
HJPI’ve read recently on a forum an article which was suggesting that from technical maintainance point of view this aircraft is a nightmare! Can anyone make comments with reasonable support on that?Thanks.
HJPThat’s ok. The tip sounds reasonable enough. Just spare few moments and share your views if you feel in the mood. Best regards.
HJPWHAT IS YOUR OPINION IN THE CASE WE PUT AN F/A-18 E AGAINST AN F-16 C BLOCK 50+ (LIKE THE ONES THK IS ABOUT TO RECEIVE AROUND 2011-12) BOTH IN A SITUATION WHEN WE HAVE A “DOGFIGHT”, AS WELL AS, UNDER THE OCCASSION OF BVR COMBAT?:confused:
HJPSparrow isn’t even being made anymore and isn’t considered a serious A2A weapon. “Strike” I assume that means “Shrike”? Same. No longer made or a relevant weapon., Walleye is long gone too.
Combat range. Varieys but just a little more than a C Hornet. While it carries close to 4,000lb more gas, it is also taking along more drag and weight and like the legacy Hornet, two mouths to feed.
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I agree with all this info ELP. I have just written down (copy paste style…) some info from the official sites of Northrop Grumman and Boeing. It is really wishful for those Marketeers who want to suggest that F/A-18 E/F is a Fifth generation aircraft. That is exactly why I haven’t ommit those weapons from their armament list!!! I was pretty sure, that this could not pass unnoticed… Nevertheless, as an aircraft F18 remains advanced, but I guess I have to suggest that a choice of a Rafale or EF would be wiser at the time being.
HJP[B]Back in the 1999, the PASOK Government and Prime Minister Kostas Simitis, CONDUCTED in association with HAF an open international contest for the Hellenic Air Force’s new jet fighter procurement programme. Participants, were the LM’s F16 block50/52+, Dassault’s Mirage 2000-5mk2, Boeing’s F15H (where H stands for HELLAS) STRIKE EAGLE and Russia’s Sukhois (don’t recall the version)… HAF superior officers have opted for the F15 but the money available allowed the purchase of only 36 units. Acting wisely (if you ask me), the Greek Governement decided to purchase 50 F16block 52+ (plus an option of 10) & 15 Mirage 2000-5mk2 (plus an option of 3). EF TYPHOON, was about that time just a developing programme with an imminent degree of uncertainty (not to mention the extravagant cost that it would incure). Furthermore, the immediate needs for new aircrafts, pushed the Greek Government for the F16 and Mirage’s, jets for which there was already some short of infrastracture, while their delivery times were short termed. In order, to give the “right” impressions to its European allies, the Simitis Government made the notorious announcement of the decision to purchase within the years to follow the EF TYPHOON… My guess, as the guess of any reasonable Greek, is that he just intended to gain some major political benefits… Who doesn’t, anyway… To make the long story short, THERE WAS AN INTERNATIONAL COMPETITION and EF made its first attempt to become a part of HAF while still under development… [/B]
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