I don’t think anything is certain mrmalaya. That are only possibilities which needs to be funded. Given the financial situation of european countries you can be pessimistic about these kind of upgrades.

The T50 is far from being developed and in full service in the RuAF. Also the probability that the T50 will enter in service in an airforce that could represent a threat to europe is low…Especially when you take into account the training and the support (facilities, AWACS) needed to achieve NATO’s level.

Airfields are vulnerable and its not a dozen of T50 with les than optimal pilot training and support that will change the balance of a potential regional conflict.

So the T50 threat is not to ignore but not to overstate if you look the full picture of armies capabilities.

Besides I Believe with appropriate developments rafale or typhoon could still match a developped T50. A better missile to compensate the kinetiks and a new set of sensors+AWACS support could well be a cost effective to counter a few middle east T50 without mentionning other means like targeting airfields…And if a major regional conflict occur I doubt that Europe will intervene without NATO full support. The combine firepower of air sea and ground asset would quickly get rid of a dozen middle east T50.

Yes :

The best of impressions left to the greek pilots the performace of the Rafale’s self protection suite, confirming the french reputation in the sector since the time that HAF operated the ICMS2000 in the Mirage2000.

The point about spectra is that despite the lack of in depth technical datas everything indicates that :

1) it performs currently very well recieving praises from foreign and french air force personnel.

2) Spectra has followed an ambitious and continuous development path with a funding level unseen for the competition (several billions euro) mainly due to its role in rafale nuclear mission which add a “strategic” value to this item. Given also French experience in the EW aera it should normally lead to a very good piece of equipment as many pilots already witness.

3) Further developments testify from a (very) ambitious roadmap and a military and political will to keep investing in this item.

-When greek pilots praise spectra in a greek magazine it is not PR.

-When Bill Sweetman or TP (which are not french) write about spectra it is not PR.

-When the french voted defense budget gived funding for a stealth demonstrator using AC (most probably) + 5T it is not PR.

I’ve already posted all these articles (some of them probably more than ten times) on this board and I am pretty sure for you directly. The question is does I need to work for a lazy person that is automaticlay BS when something positive is said about the rafale (because it is propaganda of course) and conversely the slightest rumor about something negative is taken as a truth ?

It is very difficult to talk in depth about such systems due to the lack of pubic datas. But clues indicate that spectra is quite a unique item :

-Greek pilots praised spectra and french EW (funnily many are propmt to quote small crticisms but conveniently forgot this point…selective memory for some like jack jack ?)

-Bill Sweetman articles also describe this system as perhaps the most powerful internal jamming system integrated in a tactical fighter aircraft.
You can add Peter Collins part where the OSF is cued to spectra allowing postive passive indentification.

-Intenational exercises (TLP, Red Flag, ATLC) showed how effective it was with very specific examples given by pilots of how it helped them during mission.

-Thales advertise this system as being unique first aircraft that feature AESA jammer in Europe. During Mace XX Nato exercise a Myster 20 testbed managed to remain undetected from modern SAM radars.

-Funding as always been massive and not interrupted as Sweetman article tell as well as the DSI issue with the beginning of the development of spectra 5T : GAN AESA etc.
A stealth rafale demonstrator is funded in the very official 2010 budget that will certainly/probably use active cancelation. This is a testament of the ambition level of france for this equipment which considered at the cornerstone of rafale survivability especially with the nuclear detterent role in mind.

To conclude : Even with the lack of more specific datas about spectra everything indicate that this piece of equipment is very good and has enjoyed more funding and a more ambitious roadmap than some systems from the competition. The strategic role of spectra in rafale nuclear detterent role is the reason to such a funding and improvements. Estimates published in the specialized press talks about a “unit development costs” which you have to count in “Billions Euros” over the past 20 years.

You can add that French mindef Hervé Morin officialy and publicly (televison interview, written press) supports the purchase of KC390.
Conversely to Hammer I don’t think it would threat the A400M programme. Deliveries or orders could be taken latter when the cash will be there.

The issue would be more about finding money when most of the countries try to make some savings after the spending splurge, to support the economic activity during the crisis.

The French need the brazilian order to slow the rafale delivery and thus make savings. That is why this contract is very important for France as they are commited to maintain a minimum rate of rafale production of 11 airframe per year with or without export orders. So if the Brazilian contact doesn’t materialize they will have to borrow money on the market (french bond rating is AAA but still…) to respect their commitment. In fact Dassault is quite safe in this story as a minimum production number is guaranteed by the french gov.

If in the end buying 15 KC390 could negate the savings of the slow down of rafale deliveries it could be problematic…It means that the decsion to export rafale would be political rather than economical…At least on the short term waiting for follow on orders etc…But knowing a little bit how politics work I think they will more probably order the KC390 to secure a rafale export. It is also a matter of prestige.

some news :

Jobim binding the purchase of fighter to the simultaneous sale of cargo [KC 390]
Valor Economico – May 24

The Defense Ministry will send, in the coming days, an explanatory memorandum to President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva which both indicate a clear favorite in the purchase of fighter jets for the fleet renewal of the Brazilian Air Force (FAB) and a minimum requirements to complete the billionaire contract.

One of these requirements binding on the signing of the contract’s initial purchase of 36 jets a simultaneous order of 12 Embraer KC-390 with the winner of the competition. “We want the signature at the same time” said Minister Nelson Jobim to Valor.

The minister said he has written 76 pages of explanatory memorandum on the acquisition, which has an estimated cost of about $ 6 billion. The text will be released soon after handed over to President Lula and then discussed by the Council of National Defense. And later again for the FAB and the Ministry of Finance, to the stage of contract negotiation.

Are in dispute the French fighter Rafale from Dassault, the Swedish Gripen NG, Saab, and the F-18, manufactured by American Boeing. The preference for the French jet seems clear in Brasilia. Jobim said that the only important thing for Brazil, “if the [new] jet is french” is that the freighter Embraer may enter the European market and compete in the replacement of the fleet of C-130 Hercules, the American Lockheed. According to Jobim, in a world exists a fleet 300-400 Hercules, which will need to be replaced. Then comes the chance for the Embraer KC-190 which will be flying from 2014. The Brazilian government is also aware of the probable order of Rafale by the United Arab Emirates. If the acquisition is confirmed, Brazil could bargain for a package set that lowers the price of each jet.

Jobim denied that France has made a final bid to secure the sale of Rafale during the meeting of President Nicolas Sarkozy with President Lula in Madrid last week, contradicting information published by the French press. The minister believes that he can complete the negotiation of the purchase contract before the transfer of power in January, signaling that he can calm anxieties among the French, who have lost packages in some countries when a new governor took office. A spokesman said that Sarkozy left the meeting with Lula with the feeling that it will soon be confirmed the preference for the Rafale.

The French president revealed to President Lula, in the same conversation, he will propose during the meeting of the G-20 summit, next month in Toronto, that the reform of the UN Security Council to be accelerated and even decided until the end the year. With a permanent seat for Brazil, as an emerging power and regional leader.

Thanks kovy but yes I know. I was reffering to the model rejected that scorpion described the post above.