UAE Ready To Order Rafale

Middle East Newsline

February 12, 2010
LONDON [MENL] — France expects an imminent sale of its advanced fighter-jet to the United Arab Emirates.
Officials said the French Defense Ministry has advanced in negotiations to sell the Rafale fighter-jet to the UAE Air Force.
They said the ministry’s procurement office expected a contract to be signed within weeks.
“It is expected in the first part of 2010,” Jacques de Lajugie, director for international development at the ministry’s Direction Generale pour
l’Armement, said.
In a Feb. 8 briefing, de Lajugie said the UAE was prepared to order dozens of Rafale aircraft.
He said this would mark a major development in marketing efforts of the fighter-jet, produced by Dassault Aviation Systems.
The UAE has confirmed plans to procure Rafale. But Abu Dhabi said this would depend on the return of Mirage 2000 fighter-jets purchased from
Dassault over the last decade. Officials said DGA was expecting France to conclude another Rafale deal with a Gulf Cooperation Council state. They said Kuwait has been committed to purchase Rafale in 2010.
At the same time, DGA has warned that France was losing export opportunities because of late deliveries. DGA chief Laurent Collet-Billon
said delivery schedules were expected to fall behind in 2010. “It’s not enough to respect technical specifications,” Collet-Billon said. “You have to deliver on time.”

http://www.silobreaker.com/uae-ready-to-order-rafale-5_2263230337641349122

What should be note is that Thales as about a decade of experience in ESA fighter radar with the RBE2 with all the experince that it implies (knowledge curb)

Second thing: Rafale road map dedicates 200M€ to specifically developp an AESA version. I don’t belive Selex would have dedicated as much ressources on its own.

I am not an engineer but from what I see in industry (from my professional job with different industry firms) is that experience (often empirical with the result of testing, experimenting, refinning, passing the knowledge to other pepole) is a decisive factor.

More experience in the fighter ESA radar technology and more funding should normally and logically lead to an edge for thales over selex.

Wasn’t the RBE2 AESA regarded as the only credible alternative to the F35 radar with the APG-79 by lockeed martin ?

Well, i presume that in all EU the aircrafts fall in the highest VAT category (luxury items), so VAT is more or less the same +-2% (in Greece it’s 19%). Thinking about it, it may create some fiscal calculation problems , but as overall balance it doesn’t change much, since , if the aircrafts are considered on par with common goods, the VAT is paid to the customer state. So basically, you may pay 84+VAT, but you pay the VAT to yourself, since the buyer is the state itself. It’s just money that you take from one pocket and put them back to the other. The fiscal issue may have to do with the registration of defence expenditure. If this includes the VAT, then for the same amount of money, you must buy fewer items.

Exactly,

You always export without VAT and imported goods are subjected to local VAT.

Taking VAT into consideration when talking about export competitvness is simply wrong as this tax is totally transparent for the competition.

For a state purchase the effect is null.

VAT is the most successful french tax by the way : it became a european standard and it was exported all around the world…

The only ones to bear for this tax are consumers but it has no effect on the competition.

The draw back is that everyone pay the same tax : rich and poors

article :

Arms sales: Paris aims at the world podium in 2010

Manufacturers hope to sign a 10 to 12 billion euros in export contracts.

French armaments industries are ironed on the offensive abroad. In 2009, they exported nearly 8 billion euros of military equipment (up 31% over 2008), returning to levels of 2000. Followed closely by Israel and behind the United States, Britain and Russia, France wants to reclaim its rank as third largest exporter of military equipment, signing 10 to 12 billion euros in export contracts this year, announced Monday Laurent Collet-Billon, the Director General for Armaments (DGA).

To achieve this goal, we need some major prospects lead,” he admitted. He cited discussions with Brazil and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) for the sale of Rafale fighter jets built by Dassault Aviation (*). “We look forward serenely the Brazilian government’s decision and look forward to achieving an agreement in Abu Dhabi, where negotiations are proceeding at a steady pace, this year, even in the first half of 2010,” said Jacques de Lajugie, director of the International DGA. On Monday, the new Ambassador of France to Brazil, Yves Saint-Geours, said Brasilia, which has already bought from France helicopters and Scorpene submarines, should make his choice “soon” between the various fighters in competition.

Among other promising leads, sales to Russia Building Projection and Command (BPC) Mistral class built by DCNS. “France has agreed to sell a copy. Russia would buy four in total, “said Jacques de Lajugie. Pending a formal statement at the highest level, Paris examines the request “technical” of the Russian General Staff, which raises reserves of some countries, including the United States. A PCB can carry 900 troops and tanks and helicopter gunships costs 500 to 600 million euros.

In the terrestrial domain, several countries are interested in the Leclerc tank made by Nexter. «Mais la ressource est rare. “But the resource is scarce. We can not sell a batch of 40 tanks. Also, the first come first served “, warned the director of the International.
[…]

We will never see rafale flying with the RN for sure. Sea Typhoon is almost impossible to design.

But Sea gripen woud be a choice as it has some (capitalistic) links with BAE.

all capabilities described above can be achieved by a rafale I think.

As far as I remember the rafale in the only fighter in the world to have demonstrated a hand over of missile coordinates data (Mica) to another fighter (rafale). Demonstrating a networked missile capability.

widspread formation and third party targeting is also used by rafales.

I don’t see the fundamental difference for the moment.

The rafale F2/F3 (there are almost no F2 now) is clearly superior (weapon system) to the gripen C/D as reported by french rafale pilot who flew the gripen during a former gripen C/D deployment in Reims. (The rafale F2/F3 is also more recent)

The N/G has to demonstrate in real condition its potential but technically (weapon system) it should be in the same league than a rafale F3+ (roughly)

rafale and koweit :

France, Kuwait Close To Rafale Deal

* Middle East Newsline
* January 25, 2010

LONDON [MENL] — France and Kuwait have moved closer toward a multi-billion-dollar fighter-jet deal.
Officials said Kuwait has agreed in principle to purchase more than a dozen Rafale multi-role fighter-jets from France’s Dassault Aviation.
They said the two countries have reached agreement on most of the details of a proposed contract.
“The agreements are nearly complete,” an official said. “The question now is one of timing and political coordination.”
On Jan 23, France and Kuwait concluded its annual defense cooperation session in Paris.
The five-day meeting was headed by Kuwait Deputy Chief of Staff Maj. Gen. Abdul Rahman Al Othman and French Chief of Staff Jean-Louis
Georgelin and included a strategic review and proposed military projects. France has intensified negotiations for the sale of between 14 and 28
Rafales to Kuwait. Over the past year, the French Air Force has conducted demonstrations of Rafale both in France and the Gulf Cooperation Council sheikdom.
Al Othman was said to have discussed the proposed Rafale deal with France’s Defense Ministry. No details were reported by either country.
“Maj. Gen. Al Othman held separate meetings with assistant director of exports of the directorate general of armaments at Defense Ministry and
assistant of the joint chief of staff on international relations,” the official Kuwait News Agency said.
In October 2009, France and Kuwait signed a defense agreement meant to expand current relations. Officials said the new pact was designed to
accelerate weapons deals, training, intelligence exchange and exercises.
Officials said Kuwait has also been briefed on the option to purchase U.S. fighter-jets, including the F-16 multi-role aircraft. On Jan. 25, Al
Othman was scheduled to participate in defense cooperation talks with the United States. Kuwait, a major non-NATO ally, hosts more than 15,000 U.S.troops.