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arthuro

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  • in reply to: Rafale News IX #2400960
    arthuro
    Participant

    The Weekly Air&Cosmos made an article about ATLC. While it confirms rafale domination over the Typhoon in BVR in this exercise it also says that the F22 clearly dominated the rafale in BVR. In fact The F22 didn’t used its radar and when rafales had to turn it on to look for them they were able to track them silently. In a dogfight the F22 was a fierce competitor to the rafale.

    in reply to: Rafale News IX #2412808
    arthuro
    Participant

    from strictly :

    Sagem Wins French Government Contract for Version 5 of the SLPRM Mission Planning System for French Combat Aircraft

    In late December 2009, French defense procurement agency DGA announced the contract award to Sagem (Safran group) for the development and supply of SLPRM V5, including three years of system maintenance services.

    The SLPRM (Système Local de Préparation et de Restitution de Missions) mission planning and debriefing system, developed for the Rafale omnirole fighter, is a key to efficient mission planning and debriefing.

    It is used on different combat aircraft deployed by the French air force and navy, and supports all stores configurations. SLPRM integrates the latest Rafale F3 standard, as well as the latest guided air-to-ground weapons, including the ASMP-A nuclear cruise missile, Scalp conventional cruise missile and AASM modular air-to-ground weapon, developed and produced by Sagem, along with the Reco-NG optronics reconnaissance pod.

    SLPRM V5 will feature new software, especially for the mapping function, plus an optimized, scalable architecture. It can run on a laptop computer, for simplified maintenance.

    The SLPRM V5 contract was awarded within the scope of France’s economic stimulus plan, enabling this upgraded version to be delivered ahead of schedule to the French air force and navy.

    Sagem is also prime contractor for the mission planning system used by army helicopter crews, MPME (Moyens de Préparation de Missions pour Equipages d’hélicoptères or helicopter crew mission planning module). Both systems, SLPRM and MPME, are currently deployed by French forces in combat operations in Afghanistan.

    Sagem is a high-tech company in the SAFRAN Group. It is a world or European leader in solutions and services in optronics, avionics, electronics and critical software for the civilian and military markets. Sagem is the European No. 1 and worldwide No.3 in INSs for aeronautic, naval and land applications. It is also the worldwide No.1 in helicopter flight controls and the European No.1 in optronic and tactical UAV systems. Present across the globe via the SAFRAN Group’s international network, Sagem and its subsidiaries employ 6000 people in Europe, South East Asia and North America.

    http://www.shephard.co.uk/news/5126/

    More about SLPRM:

    http://www.sagem-ds.com/pdf/en/D381.pdf

    in reply to: Rafale News IX #2413057
    arthuro
    Participant

    There is a point in the contract which states that french rafale delivery would vary according to possible exports orders. 2012 if no export orders, 2015 if there are some exports…

    in reply to: 36 rafale for Brazil #2 #2413286
    arthuro
    Participant

    @Jwcook

    How are Rafales present export prospects in a nutshell ?.

    cheers

    Here is a podcast talking about rafale chances on international markets :

    http://iagblog.podomatic.com/player/web/2010-01-15T06_02_44-08_00

    in reply to: 36 rafale for Brazil #2 #2413305
    arthuro
    Participant

    I am not directly responding to the latest articles/podcasts but I think that there are arguments for both the gripen and the rafale and depending on which criterium you favor you will come wit a different result.

    About the gripen compared to rafale for instance :

    A cheaper design with good enough capabilities and better Brazilian industry participation for SAAB/swedish governement and a less capable, less independent paperplane with less possible ToT for Dassault and the french governement.

    The two versions of the evaluation are just reflecting these two different points of view.

    I think both are valid : It is a matter of weighting pros and cons….And here the lobbies have certainly a role to play…Hence the two different evaluation which were certainly influenced by SAAB and then Dassault lobby.

    That is why someone need to decide in the end and hoppefully for Dassault this person, lula, favor the french option for another “exetrnal” factor : politics.

    in reply to: Rafale News IX #2413854
    arthuro
    Participant

    http://www.aviationtoday.com/michel_merluzeau_bio.html

    Some background info about michel merluzeau interview :

    http://iagblog.podomatic.com/player/web/2010-01-15T06_02_44-08_00

    Michel Merluzeau Bio
    CEO
    G2 Solutions
    [email]mmerluzeau@g2globalsolutions.com[/email]

    Michel Merluzeau is the CEO of G2 Solutions, an aerospace consultancy based out of Kirkland, Washington.

    Prior to joining G2 Solutions, Michel spent over seven years at Frost & Sullivan’s Silicon Valley headquarters in California as principal analyst. In addition, he spent three years at the Frost & Sullivan European headquarters in London, England, directing a core group of consultants and analysts. Michel’s projects ranged from complex end-user surveys to new product launch strategies, regional market entry programs, and acquisition strategies.

    Furthermore, Michel has been involved in numerous forecasting and analysis projects for civilian and military markets including fighter, transport, regional and business aircraft as well as helicopter markets.

    A graduate of the University of Provence in France, Michel is also a regular speaker at the Speednews Defense Supplier conference, Frost & Sullivan Competitive Intelligence conferences, and several Avionics magazine conferences. Mr. Merluzeau is regularly quoted in leading publications and media outlets such Avionics magazine, Aviation Week & Space Technology, Investors Business Daily, Los Angeles Times, San Jose Business Journal, Aviation International News, Journal of Electronic Defense, San Antonio Business Journal, CNN Money, Defense News, ABC News, Canal Argent, Flight International, AviationNow.com, Denver Post, National Defense Magazine, the Chicago Tribune, the Washington Post and Jane’s Defense Weekly.

    arthuro
    Participant

    Well, Dassault, AdlA, or SNECMA doesn’t seem confirm that.
    OTOH, we had the official confirmation of EF doing M1.21 against subsonic Rafale in Singapore. When you take a look at the transonic and general drag buildup after M1, you’ll get the idea of the difference.
    Now, it may seem as Rafale and EF are the “same” aircraft (featurning RSS canard configuration), but they aren’t really and EF has some aerodynamic compromises done to match speed requirements, while Rafale hasn’t. Hence the difference.

    Sorry Cola But on this point your are not up to date I think…Other posters like scorpion or toan can confirm rafale stated capability to SC. That is officially stated by dassault, Snecma and the AdA. Really you are mistaken here. I am sure another poster can provide all the sources…My issue is that I am on mac now and I don’t have office for mac yet so my beautiful database is out of reach for the moment.

    Actually PESA has better range than AESA, due the different signal generation procedure.

    :confused:

    Source ?

    Range is always needed (primary), especially with 100+ miles, range Meteor.

    Meteor will enter in service round 2015 so your point is irelevant for the RSAF competition. Besides the rafale will get an operational AESA in 2011-2012 which would be a quantum leap vs captor and current rbe2.

    And same goes for ESA too. RWR will always figure out a radar sooner than the radar will figure out the target.

    Not as easily than mec radar as ESA have inherently better LPI capabilities which will increase with AESA introduction.

    Well, I saw some really good pictures from PIRATE and from quite far away. So yes, PIRATE’s ID algorithms may fail, but pilot’s eyes can’t.
    TV channel is nice to have, but is the most range limited of all passive sensors (except UV).
    However, today with high res CCD matrices, modern IR sensors (like PIRATE) can match TV resolution at way larger distances.

    That is your claim but if you look exercise reports from the last two years : tiger meet, red flag and ATLC rafale long range ID capability changed the game. I have never heard anything about this for the Typhoon. But you have perhaps a source ?

    see you next day…!

    arthuro
    Participant

    But the AESA radar wasn’t available or was it demonstrated? And how could have Dassault have delivered it on time? ESA doesn’t mean the emissions can’t be detected either. What about a Typhoon flying silent using DASS and PIRATE and Rafale uses its radar?

    It was nor available nor demonstrated just as Gripen NG new AESA radar until recently. I guess development price was included in the bill. Remember that the older rafale korean campaign was offered with an AESA radar.

    ESA detection can be detected as well but that would be probably more difficult. Anyway I was thinking of track while scan capabilities or faster scan rates which might be useful not to loose track of several foes. ESA is also inherently more resistant to jamming I think.

    PIRATE isn’t a plain IRST but dual band imaging IRST/FLIR and can do both. The main advantage I see for the OSF is that it is a multisensor suite which can perform multiple tasks simultaneously (tracking multiple targets and tracking and IDing a priority target).

    Ok with this

    arthuro
    Participant

    Hello Cola :

    Where did you get that idea?
    In Singapore Rafale wasn’t able to SC whatsoever and today it has the same engines and is heavier than in 2004. EF routinely SC in QRA loadout. Rafale?
    It may seems as just M.4, or so, but actual difference in terms of drag is much larger and the difference is quite significant.

    The rafale is officialy being able to SC and this capability is often mentioned by operational pilot. I can recall a rafale M pilot stating that he was able to SC with 1 Supersonic drop tank and 4 micas. I’ve met a dozen of rafale pilots at various airshow and they confirm this capability. Dassault in one of the Fox three issues gives specific kinetic performances about it including SC.

    Well, what does that matter?
    ECR90 has roughly 1.5 times search range of RBE2.

    3 things :
    -rafale was offered to singapore with AESA so the range difference is irelevant
    -ESA radar offer some specific assets vesrus mech radar especially within the range of BVR missile engagement where max range is not needed
    -Spectra or any other modern RWR will give the first look against a mech radar.

    Well it can be a redundant thing if IFF fails.
    However, keep in mind that there are 2 different IFF modes before going visual.
    Anyway, PIRATE has reportedly longer range than OSF, so what’s your point?

    IRST can track but not identify. The TV channel of the rafale do this as providing 3D localisation thanks to its laser range finder.

    And this is where you’re wrong.
    It’s not a matter of believing or not believing. It’s a matter of what can and can’t be and if someone come with 10% off results, it can pass. If someone comes with 110% off results, he should batter carry a large book of answers with him.

    That the best way to spin in my opinion : making half lies and make it plausible to better fool the opinion. Strangely I never seen any other journalist like jackonicko putting as much effort dismissing the rafale. He criticized an RAF air schief marshall who flew the rafale, Test pilots, claiming that rafale demo was tame when it won an historical double trophy at riat, spreading fake rumors about ATLC before this press conference etc…Always the same guy. If we had several journalists like him reporting these critics I would listen…But it always come from the same guy which is as much a Typhoon fan that I am a rafale fan. He can’t realistically claim to be neutral but he pretends to be the wise/authoritative person when he is always debunked with quotable sources or facts.

    Have you listen to the radio podcast at 10’45 ?

    in reply to: Rafale News IX #2415411
    arthuro
    Participant

    from strictly :

    – Brazil and UAE look good for Rafale.
    – Kuwait chief staff air force is very pro-Rafale.
    – In Switzerland , the Rafale is on top of the technical selection.
    – F18 is the leading contender in India.

    http://iagblog.podomatic.com/player/web/2010-01-15T06_02_44-08_00

    http://g2globalsolutions.com/review/

    full article rafale order :

    France’s DGA Awards Multi-year Contract for 60 Rafales

    (Source: defense-aerospace.com; published Jan. 18, 2010)

    France has awarded Dassault the fourth multi-year order for 60 Rafale F3 combat aircraft, which will be delivered from 2015. (© Dassault Aviation-K Tokunaga)
    PARIS — The French Ministry of Defence on Dec. 31, 2009 awarded Dassault Aviation a multi-billion euro, multi-year production contract to deliver 60 Rafale F3 combat aircraft. These aircraft will be delivered beginning in 2015 with the new active antenna radar and enhanced self-protection suite.

    This latest order, approved by the defense ministry’s Ministerial Committee on Investments on Nov. 12, covers 50 aircraft for the French air force and 10 for the French navy. It also includes an option to upgrade a number of French navy Rafale F1s to the latest F3 standard, as well as spare parts, support equipment and related services.

    This order brings the total number of Rafales ordered by France to 180, out of a planned total of 286 aircraft: 228 for the air force and 58 for the navy. However, the French MoD retains the option to order 9 additional aircraft so as to return the program to the nominal number of 295 aircraft.

    Related contracts have also been awarded to Snecma for the aircraft’s M-88 engines and to MBDA for its weapons.

    A spokesman for DGA, the French defense ministry’s directorate-general of armaments, confirmed that the order was awarded on Dec. 31, 2009 but declined to state its value. Dassault Aviation declined to comment.

    Deliveries on this order, known as Commande Globale n° 4 (Global Order n° 4) and authorized under the 2009 budget, are scheduled to begin in 2015, according to Parliamentary reports, at an average rate of 10.5 aircraft per year. This leaves some flexibility for Dassault to increase the production rate in the event that one of the anticipated export orders materializes.

    As of the end of 2009, Dassault had delivered 82 Rafales (54 for the air force and 28 for the navy), of which three have been lost in accidents. Deliveries in 2010 are due to total 11 aircraft (8 for the air force, 3 for the navy), and will bring the total number of Rafales delivered by end 2010 to 93.

    In parallel, the French air force is gradually introducing the latest F3 standard aircraft, which will be capable of all planned missions and which will carry additional weapons including the AM-39 Exocet anti-ship missile and the Reco NG reconnaissance pod. The F3 version was qualified by the air force in July 2008, and will equip the 7th Fighter Wing’s first operational squadron at Saint Dizier air base by mid-2010.

    arthuro
    Participant

    Again, we’re not assessing multirole capabilities, but AA and particularly BVR since these were the conditions in which Rafale claimed score of 7-1, as an indicator of AA capability.
    EF is faster (and not just a little bit) and has better radar/IRST range. How could Rafale score 7-1 in BVR of equal handicap conditions, then??
    Well, I think it wasn’t equal handicap, since there’s no performance (in any sense) basis for that and the mail from EF GmbH largely confirms that.

    There are several approach to BVR and it seems that rafale’s is a winning one…

    First of all the typhoon is marginally faster than the rafale. It can SC around mach 1,4-1,3 vs roughly mach1,2 for the rafale with a top speed of mach 2 vs mach 1,8. The rafale can always use minimum AB to mach or beat a SC typhoon…Let’s not forget about that : we are always assuming that the two aircrafts are flying at the same engine regime…

    Secondly Typhoon radar range (Mech array) is a big handicap vs modern RWR. As soon as it turns its radar on a modern RWR would probably detect it at around twice the range. Greek F16block 52 pilots reported to be detected “several hundreds of miles away” versus the old rafale F1 variant.

    Visual ID is perhaps another factor…

    And other defense specialist (american) ackonowledge rafale performance during ATLC :

    http://iagblog.podomatic.com/player/web/2010-01-15T06_02_44-08_00

    There is a difference between you and me (no offense) : You believe Jon Lake (unamed unquote article) I simply don’t. Not that it is unrealistic but when you know the author credential and obvious bias for the typhoon I don’t take it seriously. So I don’t believe the typhoon was the only one to meet AtA requirements.

    Last point : the EF doesn’t. No AESA, no upgraded engine, no stand off capability, no antiship capability, no upgraded avionics and optronics, no real recce pod etc…The rafale next batch will encompass all this capabilities when they are not already available. It is funded, in development an ordered. It is unsure that the typhoon will get any of these improvements next decade. For the rafale it is certain.

    in reply to: 36 rafale for Brazil #2 #2415496
    arthuro
    Participant

    Here is a “radio” interview with defense specialists about ongoing export campains starting with brazil.

    They support the view that with the gripen Brazil would be a more active proponents and that would come at a cheaper price but on the other hand it won’t be able to compete with the rafale capability wise. Itcomes “well behind” the rafale and F18…

    http://iagblog.podomatic.com/player/web/2010-01-15T06_02_44-08_00

    in reply to: Rafale News IX #2415708
    arthuro
    Participant

    There should be more C in this batch as the Nuclear squadron would be already equipped and that the learning curb will be more “normal”

    Last delivery to the FAF is expected in 2023……

    arthuro
    Participant

    @Cola :

    owever, the trouble is that those same posters seconds later come with similar Dutch evaluation figures and equally abstract Singaporean “second” place, although Rafale fell behind EF in actual performance.

    At least the dutch eval xas done by an independent country and is way more recent.
    Secondly I think you have an over-simplistic definition of performance. An aircraft design is always a compromise in capabilities…The typhoon might be a little bit faster with a higher T/W ratio but on the other hand the rafale can carry more payload, futher, with a better weapon system for multirole missions.

    So the question you should ask yourself is which set of capabilities is more relevant ? If you look the recent past conflicts and potential future conflicts for the next decade you can understand that being multirole is the key factor. A nato coalition would master the sky easily against Iran or Syria. Then like for kosovo or iraq the main threat would be SAM and the main duty air to ground.
    If the Typhoon failed in singapore it was because it could not mach rafale or the F15 multirole performance even taking into account future potential development.
    So the story with the F16 is fine although no one is quoted and I am unsure it is true but to believe that the Typhoon would win the eval only on AtA capability is utter non sense. AtG is always forgotten when it represents almost 100% of actual war missions.

    @Sancho78,
    look the point here is AA evaluation, not multirole capabilities. In 2004, EF didn’t have any whatsoever, so it’s largely pointless comparing it to Rafale in multirole context, isn’t it?

    And the rafale was not even operational in its multirole variant…The promised AESA radar was not even developed…So the same could apply to the rafale.

    Besides today the rafale program is widening the gap : a fully funded and ordered upgraded version with the last advances in radar technology and optronics, upgraded engines etc…Given the pace of technology and considering that there is a approx a ten years gap of development between the two aircrafts you can easily understand that in its current form the typhoon cannot simply compete. It is already true for a rafale F3 (in terms of multirole capabilities offered to an airforce) it will be even more true with a rafale F3+…AA missiles and LGBs is a little bit short for an aircraft that price.

    arthuro
    Participant

    I am sorry but you can’t seriously challenge any of my posted sources. The best you can provide is an unnamed JL article with no quoted sources…You keep denying that the dutch evaluation was a technical evaluation when I provided an article which say precisely the opposite…That is ridiculous ! You failed again.

    4 sources about korea including specialized press an Dassault quote is not enough ? And I should believe a BS JL article with no quote ? lol…

Viewing 15 posts - 436 through 450 (of 1,287 total)