arthuroOne thing that everyone should keep in mind is that such declarations (at an official press conference) is not made to fool/misinform forumers like everyone here but it is intended to the professional community (other military that could be potentially interested by buying the rafale).
As a consequence lying would be simply quite embarrassing to say the least…
Note that some UAE pilots flew with the rafale (back seat) during these missions.
I know that rafale vs X and Y is more attractive but we shouldn’t forget rafale impressive stand off striking capabability (6 AASM release in a full salvo) and SPECTRA ability to detect SAM threats better than dedicated/specialized SEAD aircrafts. That say even more about its operational capabilities…
the rest is more a pissing contest that would very probably never traduce operationally in a real war scenario…
arthuroI think the gripen NG could be quite realistically navalized unlike the Typhoon. Its only drawback performance wise would certainly be its limited “carry back capabilities” because of its size. But the closed couple canard config is a good start.
The question is wheter it can be done at a competitive price to remain viable against the competition.
About the article from le point (original source) I am pretty sure they mixed FAB preference with the industry preference. I’ve never seen this info otherwhere and I don’t think le point (although a serious newspaper) would have the best insider infos like istoé for instance. But that is only my two cents and I can be wrong of course.
arthuroOh I’m sorry…I didn’t realize that my links didn’t work…I must be doing smthg wrong ! I’ve taken these links from strictly military photos forum >general discussion> rafale news from a guy called “olybrius if I remeber well.
I don’t have time to repost them and identify the error now. But if you want you will easily find these links with the above instructions. It is posted on one of the latest page of this rafale news thread on strictly…
arthurorafale is lighter than the SH but its spare parts, missiles etc are certainly more expensive considered the smaller number produced….Again it is low maintenance but its maintenance is expensive. And I think they included weapon support in their costs for the three contenders…Rafale is more expensive but it is also the price for independence.
As we don’t know all the input which drive cost behind these figures we can only speculate. But I don’t find them shocking.
The article is quite balanced I would say so I don’t think it is favourable to any fighter in particular including boeing.
arthurono it will stay as it is…In fact the arrival of the AESA radar means some more kilos ! (I’ve read it very recently but I can’t remember where…:o) Not alot but smth like 50kg…
arthurofrankly whatever earlier post said this report is the most precise we have with quoted named persons. For the first time you can hear bout specific detail of the FAB evaluation…I don’t think we ever had something like that before.
It was mostly PR claims from boeing, dassault and saab and then rumors if you take some distance.
arthurogood question but I wouldn’t worry about that. Once it has been voted by the MP and the senators it is certain that we will see this batch. It is only due to come in 2012-2015 depending on export orders. For me it is not a matter of concern.
arthurotwo reasons for me :
1) other aircrafts were designed with low maintenance in mind : it is not specific to the rafale.
2)Due to smaller production rafale has less economies of scales. this is true for aircraft, spare parts, missiles etc etc….So it is not necessary that the rafale needs more maintenance but maintenance duties are more expensive
arthuroIn fact I don’t know if the contract is very important…I mean do you remember previous batch signatures ?
It is the vote at the national assembly which really count here, I don’t think they will advertise the signature as it is part of the normal process following the vote.
arthuroA comprhensive rafale TV documentary (approx 1h) a just been posted.
It is called “Rafale : The king of the skies”
3 parts :
The first one is mostly about the prgramme history and why france left the european programme. One interesting info : the rafale C01 could fly easily 2H30 in clean config (13’30)
Some very nice mirage 4000 sequences also.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbk565_le-rafale-le-roi-du-ciel-13_tech
The second you can learn (if you don’t already know everything) rafale technical specificities. There is a long ex JAG (demo pilot) interview on the rafale qualities with nice cockpit view and switch explanations…(around 9’20)
Scorpion you will like this part ! (for MMI understanding)
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbk4p9_le-rafale-le-roi-du-ciel-23_tech
The third part is about operational activities etc…
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xbk48g_le-rafale-le-roi-du-ciel-33_tech
So it is a good summary of what we all know…No big scoop but you can put picture and in contex interview of what have been already discussed in articles etc…
arthuroFrance is ‘optimistic’ about sale of Rafale to Brazil
PARIS, 16 dez 2009 (AFP) -PARIS, Dec. 16, 2009 (AFP)
French Defense Minister, Herve Morin, said he was “very optimistic” about the possibility to export the Rafale fighter jets, Dassault Aviation, a number of countries, including Brazil, United Arab Emirates and Kuwait.
In an interview with French newspaper La Tribune, Morin said: “As you know, we have advanced discussions with United Arab Emirates, Brazil and also with other countries”, and “I’m optimistic.”
“In relation to Brazil, we work in a great confidence, because our relations are part of a larger strategic partnership for our countries.”
“A contract of this scope does not end in a few weeks,” said Morin, noting that it is “normal further discussions” with the Brazilian government.
Dassault competes with Boeing (F-18/Super Horn) and Sweden’s Saab (Gripen) for the sale of 36 fighter jets to the FAB, in a deal valued at $ 7 billion..Although President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva expressed his preference for the Rafale, Brazil has not yet decided on the purchase of fighter planes.
arthuroCan you post these sources….Because you know there are a lot of military aviation enthusiast from many countries here and if it was somwhere stated that the SH won against the rafale F2/F3 in BVR I am pretty sure we would have heard about it and you shouldn’t be the only one…
Even the slightest rumor usually come to our hears and with people from different origin you can’t accuse this board or the other I know to be one sided…
So For the moment I am “quite” skeptical about your alledged source to say the least….
The best thing to do for you is to post this source if you want to be taken seriously…
arthuroNot at all. The exercise was in a 100 x 100 km area, they began engagements well outside visual range and had to find each other. A detection advantage can be decisive in setting up an advantaged position for the merge. And I have little trouble believing that a RBE2 has a detection advantage over the original APG-68 in a Block 25 F-16 which they were fighting at Luke.
Do you have a souce for that…Because I have one here and the rafale pilot clearly say they engage at WVR at 0’37
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfqJYyPevvw
The results were pretty much similar in the JTFEX exercises involving F2 Rafales, the Super Hornets had the upper hand in BVR and the Rafales in WVR.
The “coincidence” is obvious and so is the fact that the quoted article is biased amateur reporting that does not know what it is talking about (or more likely simply doesn’t care enough to verify which aircraft he is talking about).
sources ?? Sources ??
Here is mine and they are not talking about BVR at all !! and that was also with Block2 by the way…
French Rafale on the Teddy” ~ The special report of Rafale M F2’s performance during the JTFEX exercise, 2008.
1. In Page 37, a photo shows a Rafale M of 12F flew with an F/A-18F from the Blacklions Squadron, the first frontline squadron of Superhornet Block II.
2. Rafale M F2 met with F/A-18E/F in several 1 v 1 BFM and 2 v 2 AA missions during the exercise. However, both sides didn’t show their real and complete fighting capability to each other ~ US pilots didn’t show the true capability of JHMCS + AIM-9X to French pilots, while 12F was also shy about showing the real capabilities of RBE2 radar, Spectra EWS, and FSO optronic systems.
3. A USN pilot’s (Lt Mike Tremel, pilot of VFA-31 “Tomcatters”) comments for Rafale M:
“A highly maneuverable fighter with an incredible capacity to point its nose in every direction in the sky.”
“The French pilots seem to be happy to its flight performance and its modern cockpit design”.
When asked if he would like to swap his Super hornet to a Rafale –> “No, I love my Super Bug way too much….”
4. A French pilot’s (pilot of 12F) comments for F/A-18E:
“A great bombing aircraft, but not a fighter for dogfighting.”
“Its acceleration capability in the high angle of incidence is not good.”
“Rafale is definitely the more nimble one.”
“However, F/A-18E has already equipped the JHMCS + AIM-9X, a combination of decisive edge in close-range encounters ~ Although the tactics to counter it have existed now.”
arthuroThe rafale indeed won 6-2 aigainst F16 in Luke but that was WVR only gun practising. So the use of radar was irrelevant to engage.
Besides the SH and rafale often practise off the french med coast when a US aircraft carrier is passing by so it is also very probable that he was refering to one of those encounter. So you should be careful when making allusion. I think that the result coincidence is to “small” to draw any conclusion.
SH had the upper hand in BVR but it was against the rafale M F1 with no Link 16, bugged radar and EW and no OSF.The F2 and the F3 is a different story.
arthuroon the last page, the new guy said a f-22 was slapped by a thphoon in an exercise
It is perfectly possible but I think this is only a rumor spread in forums for quite some time now without serious source.
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