arthuroThe quoted HUD picture is taken from a rafale HUD.
I’ve seen one from a mirage 2000 though…the one with the big arrow symbol on the HUD
arthuroDare 2, you are tiring…stop ruining all the threads and stop attacking everyone. It Will allow everyone to breath.
arthuroHello Tmor…good to see you on board again ! đ
arthuroFrom a french rafale pilot (captain) :
http://blog.francetv.fr/capitaine-romain/index.php/2009/11/27/154660-atlc
La moitiĂ© du prestigieux Escadron de Chasse 01.007 Provence a fait le dĂ©placement aux Emirats Arabe Unis Ă l’occasion de l’exercice A.T.L.C.
Cet exercice international rĂ©unit les avions de combat les plus prestigieux. Pour ne citer qu’eux : L’ Eurofighter “Typhoon”, le F22 “Raptor” et … le Rafale.
Je ne parviens pas à taire plus longtemps mon plaisir : Les pilotes qui font là -bas la démonstration des capacités du fleuron aéronautique français, portent vraiment trÚs hautes les couleurs de la France, remportant de magnifiques victoires face aux autres nations.
Google trans:
Half of the prestigious Hunting 01,007 Squadron Provence has made the trip to the United Arab Emirates during the year DPAC
This exercise brings together international combat aircraft the most prestigious. To name a few: The Eurofighter “Typhoon”, the F22 “Raptor” and … Rafale.
I can not remain silent any longer my pleasure drivers who are out there demonstrating the capabilities of the French flagship aircraft, are really raising high the colors of France, winning magnificent victories against other nations.
Also note that the weekly press point of the defense ministry took place today (and will be published on their site monday)
The order of the day include a debriefing about the UAE ATLC
You can even post questions to the pilot…
This same pilot also wrote a 208p book about his deployment in A-Stan with the rafale :
http://www.aviation-publications.com/rafale-en-afghanistan-capitaine-romain.htm
arthuroHere it is :
http://www.lepoint.fr/actualites-mon…/1648/0/402465
He is one of the historical people who were linked to dassault success with the mirage family. Anyone who has a good knowledge of dassault knows him. Even Jackonicko/JL !
In 1995 for the 50 years of dassault they have realeased a two volume book of dassault history. You can see him at various stage of dassault’s history.
I’ve met him once at the Paris airshow in 2007. But I hadn’t the opportunity to really speak with him.
arthuromore about the post above :
More ATLC RumorsâŠ
According to a reliable French blog, RAF typhoons, Dassault Rafales and LMT F-22s did indeed face off on several occasions during last monthâs ATLC in the UAE. As we are still awaiting for the sacrament of confirmation about this news, the website has chosen to selectively highlight very positive events for Rafales, as apparently reported by an AdA pilot.
– Rafale vs Typhoon: several engagements took place. Of those reported by the website, itâs 7-1 for Rafale, with degraded AA weaponry.
– Rafale vs F-22: Furballs, and in visual range only. Rafale went reportedly only once on the wrong side of F-22âs gunsight. Again, we do not know how many times, RoEs, etcâŠ
– Rafales also reportedly performed SEAD missions and were able to detect missile sites that had not been detected by F-16CJs.
– The Rafale famed OSF was able to âsilentlyâ detect targets from a distance of 23 NM.
– Finally, another Rafale demonstrated its multirole capabilities by firing 6 Sagem AASM on as many targets and simultaneously firing 3 MICA AA missiles. The website also reports that the backseater that day was an Emirati pilot.
So, once we carefully qualify the source, and take into account the selectivity of the information presented in this case, it nevertheless remains a very impressive demonstration of Rafalesâ capabilities in a fairly realistic environment. Now let us wait for the other side of the story to get the full picture.
http://g2globalsolutions.com/review/?p=3114
Houps ! with the other source from lepoint ( http://www.lepoint.fr/actualites-mon…/1648/0/402465 ) it starts to make a lot….I think that jackonicko might have tried to spead rumors too fast this time….
Here is the view of Dassault’s most respected engineer (who designed several generations of dassault fighter aircraft and whose name is historically attached to Dassault’s history) :
Like many other aircraft makers, Dassault has selected a delta-canard configuration for its latest design. âAs we were working with the other Europeans, we started to diverge significantly on the designâ explains Bruno Revellin-Falcoz [Director of Dassaultâs Technical Department]. âUltimately, we made some radically different choices. They wanted fuselage-mounted canards while we preferred to locate the canards almost above the wing-root. The key advantage of this configuration was that it would channel the air flow over the wing apex, which is where lift-generating vortices are formed. The Eurofighter Typhoon uses its canards as simple control surfaces. Although this creates a significant lever effect, it loses the positive impact on lift and therefore aerodynamic efficiency. Thatâs why we are certain that the Rafale can handle much better than the Typhoon at high angles of attack, such as during the crucial phases of dogfighting and low-speed flight. While they were groping around in the dark, we benefited from the know-how accumulated through the Mirage III Milan, Mirage III NG and Mirage 4000 programmes.
arthuroRegarding the substance of your argument, HME, it’s all very pretty but no facts to back it up, so rather full of hot air.
[*] If you actually bother to calculate T/W ratios, you’ll find only a 5% difference between Rafale and Typhoon. Hard to see how it’s possible to claim a “massive edge” for the Typhoon over the F-15, while at the same claiming that the Rafale “lags the F-15 in performance.”
[*] Your fixation on helmet displays is stange. HMDs aren’t relevant for BVR combat, as proven by the fact that the F-22 doesn’t carry one. Why is this not an issue for the F-22 but an issue for Typhoon/Rafale?
[*] Towed decoys don’t mix well with passive stealth, which is why neither the F-22 nor F-35 have them. The fact that the Rafale doesn’t either isn’t necessarily a weakness – it indicates a different concept of operations. We can’t tell whether the Spectra + OSF + Mica IR combo work less well than Captor + Pirate + Amraam.
on point N°2 I will add :
The first account reports made this morning by a French Rafale pilot reported a superiority of the French fighter Typhoon RAF during confrontations made in recent weeks, the UAE.
The first confonfration committing four against four Typhoon Rafale ended with a 4-0 in favor of French.
Despite, explains it, the carriage of rafale air-air weapons were fictitiously degraded, says one. After degrading them a little bit more, the Rafale has yet won, 3-1.
The Rafale has faced several times in F22, but in a limited visual combat air to air.
It would have been in the HUD of the American fighter only once, it is said too.
The Rafale, it is understood, has greatly improved its reputation, especially among drivers UAE.
It thus several time repeatedly demonstrated its superiority in all the spectacular missional in detecting sites of ground-air missiles that had not been updated by U.S. F-16CJ.
Furthermore, the front sector optronics (OSF) has also enabled the detection and identification up to 40 kilometers an asset which prevents the aircraft exposed for visual identification at 3-4 km, which is Necessary for most other types of aircraft.
Similarly, within a minute, a Rafale has fired six AASM on as many targets, at ranges of several tens of kilometers, while also firing three missiles air-air Mica. Back up, that day, a UAE driver …
http://lemamouth.blogspot.com/
No need to come to the merge…A mica IR will make a JHMCS+missile irelevant as the IR option will be available way earlier for the rafale….
arthuroHME
I noticed that you have just arrived here…It looks like you know quite well (Jackonicko/=Jon Lake)’s usual arguments, and that you are quite aware of the rent going on here…. Strange coincidence you arrival comes when Jackonicko is quite shy on this forum…I must say I have my doubts. Of course I can’t prove anything but I bet I am not the only one who had the same feeling.
arthuroIf you get dragged in a flame with dare2 you are weak and it just ruins the thread.
I don’t understand how can pepole answer him.
Just a reminder :
-“We’ve learnt that Rafale pilots may have done “a few small exercises outside of the official programme”, against Typhoons, and that they were “satisfied by the result”, but that the F-22s didn’t want to play: “The Americans are still quite cautious about using the F-22, since they don’t want to reveal its true performance and radar signature”.
-“So who “won” the F-22 or the Rafale? Well, no, it’s more complicated than that … And the journalist who had verified and yet intersected the info should have sought yet another confirmation.”
arthuroScorpion82
Don’t be to sure, I know someone who claimed vaste superiority of the Rafale due a single comment from “Benco” you interviewed at LeBourget, because it took him three turns to gain the advantage with a Rafale M loaded with 2 ETs.
I think you misinterprete what I said at that time…Against the SH yes (dogfight). Against the typhoon it was just to say it wasn’t invincible and that there is certainly too much “hype” about its air to air capabilities. That’s all đ
I admit that in the debate with jackonocko it might have become too passionate. but the substance is what I said above !
I take teer’s word as mine :
Not a single Rafale thread without him slagging the Rafale as inferior to the EF in A2A, dismissing anyone stating otherwise as a fanboy etc, alluding to how the EF will always have the better (oh not always, almost always) of the Rafale in A2A etc etc …. hence my tongue in cheek comment.
For the record, I like both aircraft and believe that in the right hands, with some luck either ways, each can get the better of the other.
——————————————————————————–
arthuroI wished that a strike on a distant well defended surface target could be pictured somehow…That much more representative of what is truely done in the last conflicts and what put a challenge to modern aircrafts most recently…(bosnia, kosovo, iraq…).
Air to Air is somewhat (almost) a joke now ! Just for fun and to debate in forums:D
arthuroAnd there was much rejoicing! Final, incontravertable proof of the superiority of the Rafale, surely this pic can be taken as gospel evidence that the rafale must win every fight whenever it comes up against the Typhoon!
Why, I believe the British government will be surrendering any minute and handing over the keys to Trident.
course, there is probably gun camera footage of a boulton paul defiant shooting down an Me-109 somewhere….
I think you are the only one who think that…
Nobody has made any (serious) conclusions that far regarding rafale vs Typhoon…Funny to see that people can make criticisms before that there is a case to make one !:D
ParanoĂŻa ?
arthuroThat’s not an F16 HUD for sure !
The symbology is totally different…
That’s taken from a rafale HUD.
Just compare with this video with a SH in the rafale HUD at exactly 3’33 and afterwards….
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6bnpq_rafale-vs-superhornet_sport
or in this rafale vs F16 video at 2’40 exactly :
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x96igj_rafale-a-red-flag-08_tech
compare this to the classic f16 double line gun symbology :
arthuroI’d say late 90’s for the EM version (the firs one delivered to the AdA of course) and approx 2005 for the IR version.
It is not that old considering the much older Super 530D is still in service with mirage 2000C RDI !
arthuroOn the fox E issue some points draw my attention :
First it seems that USAF worries at red flag or at the UAE were justified because of spectra elint capability. secondly I think we had a debate about the ability of spectra to perform finding in three dimensions recently. But the fact that the FSO can be slaved to the RWR and ajust precisely the focus to give a clear picture in the cockpit was already a clue. the SEAD role with spectra/AASM was another.
The Spectra(4) multi-spectral, totally integrated electronic
warfare suite is designed to ensure efficient electromagnetic
detection, laser warning, missile approach warning
using passive IR detection technology, jamming and
chaff/flare dispensing. Three-dimension direction-finding
accuracy is excellent, and the time taken for signal identification
is extremely short. Its very high processing power
gives outstanding detection and omni-directional jamming
performance through active antennas, optimising the
response to match the threat, even in a multi-threat environment.
The location and types of systems detected by Spectra can
be recorded for later analysis, giving Rafale operators a
substantial built-in ELINT capability.
It is not the first this info has been posted but it seems that the UAE are really pushing meteor integration because I don’t think that the french air force expected to deploy any meteor operationnaly befaore 2015.
the new Meteor missile will create a formidable combination of weapon/ sensor/airframe. The French Ministry of Defence has recently reaffirmed its support to the programme, and it has been officially announced that a first batch of 200 Meteors will be ordered for the Rafale as part of 2010 defence procurement budget.
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/dae/sponsors/sponsor_rafale/img/fox3_14.pdf
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