The SH stands high for me !

Well all fine and I could dig up a couple of comments from pilots who are/were very impressed with the Typhoon’s MMI as well. In the end much depends on the pilots view, which is often subjective and depends on a number of factors, such as backgrounds, personal feeling etc. Some pilots may find it easier to get used to MMI X, while other pilots might find MMI Y more intuitive. I pretty much agree that you have to see both sides and I’m no journalist either. But it doesn’t matter if you are a journalist or not as long as you claim things in the face of others.

I totally agree with you…That is why as a rafale enthousiast I am a bit angry with JL article. Honestly that must had been a very easy task to ask dassault about this directly at Dubai…Just a few meters to walk…Plenty of pilots and officials eager to communicate… I don’t think he was lazy but its goals were obviously elswhere : to support BAE and the Typhoon. And that is not a crime by any means but he should just admit he is not neutral…

What does the Typhoon’s AG capabilities speak about? Me aircraft was designed with a stronger emphasis on AA? Certainly yes.

Of course : But then you should ask what is more relevant nowadays considering current and future potential threats…The delay of the meteor integration is a clue…

I mean most of people argue “my aicraft can kill yours” in a cold war mindset to assess performance when AtG is 100% of the job now. Of course you should brace for every possibilities (thus being AtA capable) but I think (in my personnal opinion) the rafale is a far better/relevant mix of capabilities than the typhoon to cope with todays air operations.
For me SC is far over rated…Carrying capabilities, range, a wide range of weapons, SA etc are more important in a post Cold war environement.

don’t know if this one was already posted<;;;

UAE closely studying details of French jetMahmoud Habboush

Last Updated: November 14. 2009 11:40PM UAE / November 14. 2009 7:40PM GMT

Major General Mohammed bin Swaidan Saeed Al Gamzi, Commander of the UAE Air Force and Air Defence, listens to a speaker at the Dubai International Air Chiefs Conference at Knowledge Village in Dubai yesterday. Photos by Jeff Topping / The National

DUBAI // UAE Air Force officials are patiently hammering out the details of a deal to replace their 63 ageing Mirage 2000-9 fighters with the top-line Dassault Rafale multi-role aircraft, experts said yesterday, but the implications for the nation’s security could be huge.

Retired Gen Khalid al Buainnain, the former chief of the UAE Armed Forces, said the deal could be in place by early 2010, with the first aircraft arriving in 2013.

“The brothers at the Air Force are taking their time to make sure that all the operational requirements as well as technical and logistical requirements are considered,” said Gen al Buainnain on the sidelines of the Dubai International Air Chiefs Conference, organised by the Institute for Near East and Gulf Military Analysis (Inegma). The UAE Government had confirmed in June 2008 that it was in talks with the French government to acquire the Rafale, a jet fighter aircraft built by the French firm Dassault.

The deal is expected to be worth between €6 billion (Dh32.2bn) and €10bn.

Gen Jean-Paul Palomeros, chief of staff of the French air force, said the UAE’s purchase of a French-built fighter made sense given an already close military relationship between the countries. Using similar or interchangeable hardware made battlefield co-operation easier, he said.

“We work together on improving security and air capability,” he said. “So any improvement that can be done on that field, using the same weapon, the same aircraft, is a nice move towards better efficiency for both of our air forces.”

France is one of the UAE’s major suppliers of military hardware. In 1994, the army bought more than 400 Leclerc tanks from the French firm Giat Industries. In May, France opened a 500-soldier military base in Abu Dhabi and upgraded a defence co-operation agreement that was first signed in 1995.

A key requirement for the aircraft is “interoperability” or the capacity to work with other systems and weapons platforms such as the US-made F-16 Block 60; the UAE ordered 80 F-16s in 2004. Experts say inter-operability is a technical requirement that most defence contractors can handle.

Major General Mohammed bin Swaidan Saeed al Gamzi, Commander of the UAE Air Force, declined to comment yesterday on the possible purchase of Rafale aircraft.

Gen al Buainnain called the deal “very complex”.

“It … is connected to a lot of operational and technical details, therefore there is no rushing for signing a deal because the capability of the Mirage 2000 and the F-16 is very strong,” Gen al Buainnain said.

Riad Kahwaji, the chief executive of INEGMA, said that if the French jet met all the standards the UAE laid out for it, it could serve the UAE Air Force for the next 20 years.

“This is a new, almost fifth-generation fighter, and that’s exactly what the UAE is asking for. It’ll help them cover their needs for the next 20 years and be a good backing for the F-16.”

The UAE has a long-standing policy of diversifying its sources of arms and military hardware. In addition to France, other suppliers include Britain, Germany and Russia.

Experts said some countries were easier to buy weapons and machines from than others, as well.

“US technology [for example] falls under certain rules for exports; France doesn’t have that,” said Dr Theodore Karasik, director of research and development at Inegma.

Another issue that makes European suppliers more attractive than the US is parliamentary restrictions.

“The UAE understands how the French operate and that they can sell them whatever system they want without having to go through the Congress or the lobbying groups” as in the US, Dr Karasik said.

Gen al Buainnain, who has direct knowledge of the negotiations, said France would be responsible for taking the 63 outdated Mirage fighters off the UAE’s hands.

That could be difficult, Mr Kahwaji said. “The French government needs to find a solution for the Mirage 2000 in order for the UAE to be able to purchase the Rafale,” he said, adding that Oman or Eastern European nations could be potential buyers.

“There are a number of countries that could be looking for a good fighter like the Mirage,” he said.

Gen al Buainnain said he did not expect the issue to be a sticking point.

“One of the conclusions that the French government reached was that the Mirage 2000 are advanced enough that the French air force wants to keep them; that’s one of their best available options.”

Gen Palomeros said his UAE counterpart had given him positive feedback on the Rafale.

“We work hand-in-hand with General Gamzi,” he said. “He knows [the Rafale] very well. He flew in the aircraft, he likes the aircraft. I hope we are very close to working together on this aircraft.”

Last month, Kuwait’s minister of defence and deputy prime minister, Sheikh Jaber al Hamad al Sabah, repeated his country’s desire to buy the Dassault Rafale combat jets.

It is expected that if a deal is signed the Rafale aircraft delivered to the UAE Air Force will be more advanced than those flown by the French air force. A more powerful engine, a new air-to-air missile and cutting-edge radar systems are some of the requirements the UAE has made to Dassault and its French partners, Safran, Thales and MBDA, according to media reports in September.

A nice Dassault test pilot interview at Dubai by Flightglobal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEH2BsdiX_E

I think it is this pilot who flew phil collins from the back seat (remember the recent rafale flight report)

President Lula said in France there is an agreement to buy fighters

Defesa@Net 15 Novembro 2009
Kaiser Konrad

President Luiz Inacio signaled the signing of the agreement with France for the purchase of Rafale fighter.In the joint statement issued by the presidents of both countries, Lula said that “we begin to establish this idea of strategy between France and Brazil, agreements for submarine, agreements for helicopters , agreements for fighter planes, which maintains the same principles that we agree in Brasilia”.
In citing the agreements already signed for the construction of submarines and acquisition of helicopters, the Brazilian president said in the same sentence to have also an agreement for fighters.

…

http://www.defesanet.com.br/01_lz/fx2/01_weather.htm

Any links to the meetings between Gripen and Rafale? Was that Gripen A or C?

it came from Airfan monthly magazine that I bought at that time (2007).

Hoppefully a french poster sumed it on a french forum at that time :

http://www.air-defense.net/forum/index.php?topic=8521.0

traduction :

In an article of Air Fan of May 2007, the Gripen came to France in exchange with F1CR Reims. Beyond reconnaissance missions, the Gripen has simulated dogfights and BVR with the Mirage F1. I do not specify the outcome, everyone would probably … [28]

However, the Gripen has been opposed to the Rafale, and there it seems that our Swedish friends have had nice cold sweats …

Thus combined raids were organized according to Air Fan (two or four in F1CR reco escorted by two Gripen, plus two rafale sweep in with the AWACS, against four in 2000-5 CAP) and interceptions Gripen / Rafale altitude. The Swedish pilots unfamiliar with the new French jet they fear above all the capability of shooting long distance with the Mica IR. The Swedish aviators “who have fight the with rafale in close combat has also discovered huge reserves of power available to that plane, even with heavy loads”

Also, according to a pilot, 1 / 33, connoisseur of the Rafale, which flew on the Rafale and Gripen (back seat).
“Gripen is about the capacity of 2000-5 Mk2, a little smaller. But in terms of data fusion, payload capacity, technology and weapon system, there has a gap between JAS39 and Rafale ”

Other comments: “Visiting the EC 1 / 7, the Swedish pilots were obviously surprised by the payload capabilities of the Rafale and the fusion of diffférents sensors”

… about the gripen against the F1CR , I prefer not to put comments … we will simply say that in a dogfight, they are dropped completely, and also in BVR … [31]

EDIT :I browsed the french forum after this report/post and the gripen were all C and D models…

some news to move on after the flame;) :

SAO PAULO, Brazil – French aircraft maker Dassault lashed out Nov. 12 at Swedish and U.S. competitors for a multi-billion-dollar jet fighter contract in Brazil, accusing them of playing dirty.

The Brazilian subsidiary of the French company held a hastily called news conference in Brasilia to accuse Saab of Sweden and Boeing of the United States of trying to improperly tilt the contest in their favor by claiming Dassault’s Rafale jet was too expensive.
Related Topics

“Unfortunately, our competitors have started to make public declarations that don’t correspond to reality in a bid to influence the decision,” Dassault executive Jean-Marc Merialdo said in the conference broadcast on the Internet.
The Rafale has been seen as the front-runner throughout the process because of France’s pledge to transfer all technology related to the high-tech fighter so Brazil can eventually build the planes itself.
That position was reinforced two months ago when the presidents of Brazil and France, Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva and Nicolas Sarkozy, issued a joint statement saying Brazil had initiated negotiations to buy 36 Rafales.
Since then, the process has been held up pending delivery to the Brazilian government of an Air Force technical assessment of the three contenders.
That report is due to be delivered by the end of the month, according to Dassault.
Lula has said he will make the final decision based on political and strategic considerations rather than purely budgetary ones – bolstering the bid from France, which enjoys a strategic relationship with Brazil.
Saab and Boeing are far from ready to throw in the towel, however, and have sought to portray their aircraft – the Gripen NG and the F/A-18 Super Hornet, respectively – as the best choice for Brazil.
A Boeing executive in charge of international investment, Michael Coggins, last week accused France of being “intellectually dishonest” by ignoring moves in the U.S. Congress to also approve the transfer of “key” technology of the F/A-18 to Brazil.
Dassault was also guilty of “fear marketing” because the Rafale was 40 percent more expensive than the Boeing fighter, Coggins charged in an interview with the newspaper Folha de Sao Paulo.
Dassault’s Merialdo would not discuss prices, citing a confidentiality clause in the tender.
But he stated that claims the Rafale was more expensive by such a margin were “unfounded” and asserted it was “comparable to other aircraft of the same class.”

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/story.php…52&c=EUR&s=AIR

Fighter: In the final competition, Dassault offers additional items to try to sell the Rafale to Brazil

Posted on 13/11/2009 at 17h24m
José Meirelles Passos

RIO – In the final of the competition for a contract for the sale of 36 fighter jets to the Brazilian Air Force (FAB), the government of France – whose company competes with Dassault your model against the Rafale and Boeing Swedish Saab – added some items the package had already offered to Brazil. One is the possibility that, over the agreement, the Embraer Company may develop a more modern version of that plane and eventually export it to France itself. (See also: France fights back lobbies of competitors in the sale of fighter jets to Brazil)

This possibility is embedded in the fact that the promised technology transfer that aircraft without any restrictions, it includes the transfer of its source code – the heart and brain of the plane. Are the lines of code for programs that control both the weapons systems (missiles and on-board computers) as well as radar, engines, and moving surfaces (such as installations) of the game.

“The fleet will have all the technology of the Rafale, including the so-called source code. With them she can either modify the aircraft as do, for example, a Super Rafale”

This promise, plus the guarantee of several other advantages, were presented to the government for a special envoy of President Nicolas Sarkozy during a mild two-day visit to Brazil last week: Admiral Edouard Guillaud. He is “chief of staff particularly from the president.”

– The agreement that proposed to Brazilian government is writing that the FAB will have all the technology of the Rafale, including the so-called source code. With it they can either modify the aircraft as do, for example, a Super Rafale, a new version – Guillaud said in an interview with O Globo. – These are technical specifications, ranging from the most general to the last screw of the landing gear. This is called transfer of trade secret – he insisted.

Rafale-Photo: Reuters

Guillaud talked privately with Defense Minister Nelson Jobim, the Copacabana Palace Hotel in Rio de Janeiro. Hours later, in an interview after commenting that “a fighter without weapons is an airplane flying club, very expensive”, he revealed that in the spirit of strategic partnership France-Brazil signed last December, the Brazilian government assured that the France is prepared to go further: if the Rafale win the competition, Brazil could produce even the weapons for such aircraft.

– The French missile industry also agreed with Brazil to share their trade secrets. This shows that we are not just talking about a plane, but an entire global system for which we propose the transfer of technology.

Guillaud also said that it reinforced the French proposal with a plan for the exchange of top-level officials, especially the staffs of the armed forces of both countries:

– We are not talking as traders. It is a strategic thinking, which can go much further – he said.

Guillaud came to Brazil in the company of Damien Loras, Sarkozy’s advisor for the Americas. During the interview he also emphasized some points of the proposal for his country, especially that technology transfer would be “free course” and not an additional cost to the value of the airplane:

– The value of this unprecedented transfer represents years of experience, developments, studies and know-how (design and manufacturing). This value is estimated between five and seven billion euros, ie more than the amount of the contract – said Loras.

Despite that mention of price, both he and Guillaud avoided mentioning specific figures on the cost of the Rafale – except the fact that it would be 4% more expensive than the F-18 Super Hornet, the American Boeing. This difference, they argued, would disappear over the 15-year contract to be signed with Brazil, because of currency fluctuations during that period.

– Independence and autonomy always require investment. Even the French paid a price to be autonomous and not depend on supply from other countries in the military. We accept invest more, a little more, to master our destiny. And Brazil now has a chance to do the same: the economy is strong, political will, and seeks the means to earn respect and be respected. This is where the tool operates military – argued Guillaud.

The estimate is that the French package would cost about 5.5 billion euros. The admiral, declining to specify a value, said that in practice, taxpayers would pay for the Brazilian fighter a price equal to cost for the French themselves. Guillaud suggested that, in the last minute, there could be some kind of agreement regarding the value of the contract:

– We are in a competition and whoever is chosen (in terms of technical and operational) will enter into trade negotiations. Did not come here on behalf of the manufacturer (Dassault), but rather the president. What I can say is that during negotiations the French state will be present. President Sarkozy has pledged to do so. This is a commitment in writing, and firm – said Guillaud

.

http://oglobo.globo.com/pais/mat/200…-914743381.asp

Offer includes Dassault partnership with Embraer

Defesa@Net 10 Novembro 2009
De São José dos Campos Sao Jose dos Campos

Considered to be the preferred strategic partner of Brazil by President Lula, Dassault, a finalist in the competition for the purchase of 36 fighter jets to the Brazilian Air Force (FAB), proposed to the unrestricted transfer of technology for 67 projects in Brazil. According to Dassault, supply delivered to the Air Force Command in late October, covering more than 100% of the purchase contract of fighters, estimated at U.S. $ 4 billion.

According to the company, the consortium has committed to make the assembly, in Brazil, 30 of the 36 fighters that will be purchased by the program F-X2, with parts manufactured in Brazil by Brazilian companies. “Faremos a montagem no Brasil a partir do sétimo caça, com linha de fabricação na Embraer”, afirmou um porta-voz. “We will do the assembly in Brazil from the seventh game, with the manufacturing line at Embraer,” said a spokesman.

He said the consortium expects at least 50% of the parts of the Rafale is produced in Brazil until the final delivery of 36 aircraft under this first contract, but there is a possibility in the future, the FAB to buy 120 fighter jets. . “We not only small parts, but also structural parts such as wings, which will be manufactured by Embraer, if we win this contract,” he said.

The president of the Aerospace Industries Association of Brazil (AIAB), Walter Bartels points out that the new projects for the acquisition of defense equipment should promote technological autonomy of the Brazilian industry. “The process of technology transfer occurs when there is innovation or technological development within the industry. “
Bartels cites the case of the AMX, done in cooperation with Italian companies and the government. “Brazil has paid 30% of its development and dominated 100% of the plane.”

The industrial cooperation program, plus the package of technology transfer, proposed by Dassault, provides for the creation of three thousand direct and indirect jobs in Brazil, for a period of 10 years. This figure, according to the executive, may be extended to 24 thousand, with the manufacturing activities of the fighters in the aerospace industries of Singapore and also the transfer of technology through the creation of many products.

Embraer, according to the executive, is the leading Rafale cooperation of the consortium, together with the Department of Aerospace Science and Technology (DCTA), both in Sao Jose dos Campos (SP). As a manufacturer and integrator of aerospace systems, the Company will have full autonomy to lead in cooperation with the Brazilian industry, adaptations and improvements in the future Rafale aircraft and its systems,” the Consortium Rafale in the document.
Cooperate with Embraer, according to a spokesman for Dassault, will expand the knowledge of the company, giving it autonomy to perform independently, the design of the next generation of Brazilian fighters. “The Brazilian industry and especially the Company, acquired new technological capabilities with the AMX program. With the Rafale they can go far beyond what won with AMX,” says the executive.

As promised by French President Nicolas Sarkozy during his visit to Brazil on September 7, the consortium Rafale reinforces its interest in supporting the development of the KC-390 freighter, and CEO. This partnership can be accomplished by the transfer of technology in the field of key domain and highly sensitive Systems Digital Flight Control System (DFCS) .It is important to emphasize that the technology DFCS are dominated by very few companies in the world and desired by many,” said the spokesman.

The transfer of sensitive technologies, which Brazil does not have the domain, is also one of the highlights of the Consortium’s bid Rafale,said the spokesman for the company. The approval for unrestricted transfer of technology, according to the executive, has been officially notified to the Air Force Command by French authorities.

Among the technologies considered essential offered by firms of the Dassault consortium : aeromecanica integration of arms and cocoons (?), engineering of the airframe, software, radar and mission system technologies of digital flight control, engine integration, applications pyrotechnic space, network design systems unmanned aerial vehicles, among others.

http://translate.google.cf/translate…istory_state0=

11/11/2009 – — 18h59 18:59
Lula meet Sarkozy in Paris to discuss climate and fighters

With an invitation from French President Nicolas Sarkozy, President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva arrives next Saturday in Paris. The trip was agreed on Wednesday during a phone call that lasted nearly ten minutes
…
The Brazilian government must announce by the end of the month the result of the bidding for the purchase of aircraft for the FAB (Brazilian Air Force). Are in contention F-18 Super Hornet Boeing, the Swedish Gripen NG Saab and French Dassault’s Rafale. The French are the favorites.

In the last meeting between Lula and Sarkozy on September 7, the Brazilian government publicly announced interest in the proposal of Dassault. According to Minister Nelson Jobim (Defense), will be taken into account four factors for choosing the winning bidder.
“It is the operational capability of each of these, what kind of science and technology being proposed by the three, the commitment to national capacity building and the fourth is the cost of equipment and logistics. These are the four elements that will decide,” he said.

…