arthuroAlthough nothing is certain I see the rafale winning this one. I can’t see Brazilian president and Nelson Jobim making a U-turn and say no to Sarkozy after all these official statements etc…
Besides Jobim officially declared recently that the brazilian government favor the rafale (again).
Even if the rafale deal was called into question, I bet that sarkozy would come with another offer even very unfavourable to the french…Just a matter of pride…This is just a matter of a phone call to Lula.
About ToT there is many way to view it…Each party will advertise it in a different way. One can say that there is much more technology to transfer to brazil than on the NG due to the 100% french content (even the engine).
Besides ToT is usually not about one product (an aircraft in this case) but can deal with many other things…nuclear technology, space, etc…The sky is the limit here. And for that matter french defense industry which is world class is an asset.
arthuroI am not a specialist on these pods so I don’t exactly what are the different functionnalities but the main difference is the following :
Damocles can be used like a light recce element (like the “recce light” for the Typhoon for instance) but this is much much less performant than the reco NG.Using these items for recce instead of a dedicated pod like The RECO NG or AEROS is like “seeing the world with a pipe” which gives you a very small picture of what is going on. If you don’t know where to look for this is going to be an issue to find insurgents movments etc…
The reco NG can digitize in VHD huge surfaces from high, medium and low altitude and transmit in near real time these pictures to intel services for analysis.
arthurohere is a very nice HD spotter video of a “tiger decorated rafale”. The dissemetrical way the canard move at some point is quite interesting. :
arthurosome news :
Defence
DATE:20/05/09
SOURCE:Flight International
Thales outlines sensor enhancements for Rafale
By Craig Hoyle
Thales is to offer an enhanced XF version of its Damocles targeting pod, and expects to complete flight qualification trials of the system in 2012.
To be equipped with a new daylight camera with continuous zoom, and to also deliver enhanced high-resolution infrared imagery, the Damocles XF will be capable of providing real-time video to ground troops and forward air controllers via a datalink, says Thales.
Key attributes will include improved image quality from short and medium range, and automatic image sharpening to reduce crew workload, says Pascal Jourdan, Damocles project manager for Thales Optronique. The multifunction system will be capable of providing targeting information for laser- and GPS/INS-guided weapons, and of providing tactical reconnaissance and battle damage assessment services, he adds.
“We needed to make some evolutions to the pod,” says Jourdan, who expects to freeze the design of the new version late this year. The XF system will retain its weight of around 280kg (617lb), inertia and shape of the baseline Damocles pod, he says, removing the need to perform costly recertification activities.
Thales sold 10 Damocles pods to the French navy early this decade, plus 15 in 2007 to equip the French air force’s F3-standard Dassault Rafale fighters. It has also sold a further 75 systems to five export customers, and Jourdan says that “it is a key requirement to be able to retrofit” in-service equipment to the XF configuration.
Meanwhile, Serge Larroque, Thales Optronique’s reconnaissance product line manager, says the company’s Reco NG/Areos pod will undergo final qualification with the Rafale F3 in July. The design will then be delivered to the French air force flight-test centre at Mont de Marsan air base to support concept of operations development work.
The Reco NG imagery intelligence system will be delivered with air force and navy F3-configured Rafales, with the services having ordered a combined 20 pods. The air force will be able to field the system operationally for tactical and strategic reconnaissance from early next year, says Larroque. “We are ready to be more integrated in the network, and to provide imagery on demand,” he adds.
Thales has performed more than 100 qualification flights with the Reco NG using Rafale and Dassault Mirage 2000 airframes. The company is already studying potential future enhancements to the system, including the integration of multi- or hyper-spectral sensors, says Larroque.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/05/20/326767/thales-outlines-sensor-enhancements-for-rafale.html
arthuroAny rafale F3 can take on the nuclear role. But you need more ‘specialized pilots’ with a specific culture with a very perticular approach of the mission wich is very different from other role.
The dedicated squadron was specifically made for these reasons, especially for the ‘nuclear culture’ according to the Gascogne boss interview in a recent DSI edition.
arthuroNice rafale video in A-stan : (pilot interviews and nice sequences)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Pht0ucdA80
one of the rafale hqs fired 10 AASM according to marking painted on the fuselage.
arthuroThe ASMP-A enters into service
speed around mach3 and range around 500 km.
Designed to be implemented by military aircraft of the Air and naval aviation, the new nuclear missile ASMP-A (Medium Range Air-Ground Improved) was declared operational on 1 October on Mirage 2000 N. A ceremony was held for the occasion on the air base 125 in Istres. Forty five years ago, 1 October 1964, was declared the operational commissioning of Mirage IV and the AN-11 EB 1 / 91 “Biscay, Mont de Marsan. “La France became the third independent nuclear power, giving it the rank it has more left in the comity of nations. 45 years of uninterrupted nuclear alert, 7 / 7 and 24/24 “, said General Jean-Paul Palomeros, Chief of Staff of the Air Force.
Nuclear deterrence, initially assigned only to the Strategic Air Forces (SAF), will also be the case of the Navy. In December 1971, the formidable first submarine ballistic missile French, is in use. It will be followed by five SSBNs between 1973 and 1985. Then come over in 1997 with a new-generation SSBN, The Triumphant (arming M45 with 16 missiles each up to 6 heads of 150 kilotonnes.Portée: 6000 kilometers). After the fall of the Berlin Wall, the staff of the Strategic Oceanic Force (FOST) is reduced to four units. The last of the series, The Terrible, becomes operational next year and will be the first to embark on new M51 ballistic missile (range 9,000 kilometers), which will equip his elders, after revision, during the next decade.The naval aviation has also been entrusted with the mission of nuclear deterrence. Its Super Etendard, aboard aircraft carriers are equipped with the AN-12 and the ASMP (a head of 300 kt), like the Mirage of FAS also upgraded. If the means of the FOST is not reduced in March 2008, President Sarkozy has announced a reduction of one third of the airborne component. The FAS lose, well, one of their three squadrons. But if they lose quantitatively, qualitatively they will earn with the replacement of the ASPM by a new missile.
“The ASMP-A is a formidable weapon that has no equivalent. Today few nations are equal to us, not afraid to say, be proud, “said the October 1 general Palomeros. Laurent Collet-Billon, Delegate General for Armaments, was recognized for his “extraordinary performances of this new missile.”
Developed by MBDA, the ASMP-A, with a new head (NIR) measures just over 5 meters and a mass of about 850 pounds. With an increased range compared to its predecessor, is powered by stratoreacteur, which gives it greater speed. Its penetration capability and accuracy are also higher. Deterrence requires, its exact characteristics are classified. The literature suggests authorized, however, a speed of Mach 3 and a range of 500 kilometers.
In addition to the Mirage 2000 N of FAS, the ASMP-A will equip the Gust of the Air Force and those of the Navy (standard F3). It should be implemented soon since the aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle, whose tanks were modified last year to accommodate the new missile.
Between submarines and planes, France have, in total, almost 300 nuclear warheads
http://www.meretmarine.com/article.cfm?id=111326
It should be interesting to know if it is possible to develop a conventional supersonic cruise weapon out of it or even a long range AtA missile.
arthuroConfirmed political preference for the rafale by Brazil (official statement) :
arthuroWho’s using the OSF sets? Navy? Air Force? No-one?
Navy and Air Force. As the OSF can be removed easily, they give the OSF in priority for the aircrafts on operations (Astan or international exercises)
BUT there is currently a debate to make the OSF the norm on each aircraft because the availibility of this item or not changes completly the approach of the mission. So the pilots complains that without it, it is very difficult to train in a realistic manner. (because in operation they would have the OSF). That is why we can hear in the french specialized press that a new batch of OSF-IT could be ordered for the current F3 batch which have been ordered without for budgetary reasons and also to the fact that an improved version would soon be available.
The decision to affect the OSF to the aircrafts on ‘the front line’ should be an interim solution, provided there are no budget cuts.
>>I think that the production continuity issue was already adressed by re-ordering the cancelled F3 rafale to fund the F3+ variant. Besides 2 more rafale should be ordered as part as france investment plan to fight against the crisis. Perhaps another french poster should give some update about this.
>>Rafale production should stop in 2023 for french needs if everything goes normally.
regards.
arthuroI mean to remember it were 6 weeks, not just 2?
You are right about that I think, my memory has mistaken me 🙂
arthuroIs the F2-to-F3 upgrade process complete? Surely not?
There are already a majority of F3 and all the F2 should be retrofited to the F3 standard in February 2010.
And what is an F3, in reality, as of now?
The Exocet, the ASMP are technically cleared for the F3 already. I am not sure about the reco NG but the swiss test showed that this was already fonctionning so it should be the case now. But the AdA needs to find the right doctrine of use and train its pilots before declaring the weapon operational. Besides they need to get delivery of these new weapons. By the way the recent mid air collision was about the ASMP-A testing with the navy. That is why the navy refused to communicate on the weight of the aircrafts for catapult according to secret defense blog.
The F3 standard encompass many less visible improvments such as obsolescences treatments for some hardware, new RBE2 modes, improved SPECTRA which is continuously upgraded at each batch, new firing modes with the mica IR (loal) etc
The DVI and HMS are still absent but were previously tested. Budget reasons decided against it.
The F3 upgrade is not just a software upgrade : that is a 2 week work per rafale with a lot of rewiring and some hardware replacement.
The F3 allows the rafale to confront a very wide tactical scenarios which makes it ‘omnirole’ as marketed by Dassault and gives a true justification to its price. The coming F3+ will improve again these capabilities.
PS : 100 METEOR are expected to be ordered with the 2010 defense budget !!
arthuroWe are still waiting for the formal approval of the next batch. The vote for the new defense budget was postponed and posponed due to the glut of new laws to vote for other reforms. This should come at the end of this year hopefully.
arthuroSome news related to Sukhoi offer as well as dassault and SAAB :
Proud and boastful optimism even the Russians? or merely well informed?
In the poker game that engage Moscow and Paris to win the tender for the purchase of military aircraft from Brazil, the company Russian arms exporter Rosoboronexport said Friday it had “good chances” to grab development through the sale of fighter jets Su-35.
Information that might surprise a few, while France had recently claimed to be in very good position to win the contract, with the key to the purchase of 36 aircraft at Dassault Rafale.
“We believe that our offer has many advantages and we have good chances of winning the contract,” said one spokesman for Rosoboronexport, Vyacheslav Davydenko.
“Our offer contains an extensive program of technology transfer – whether technical services, repairs, and all that is required to manufacture (fighter) Su-35 in Brazil,” said in turn the director of Rosoboronexport, Anatoly Issaïkine.
Of about a significant level while the transfer of technology appears to be the real sinews of war.
Saab has meanwhile filing its final offer to try to win the bet. “But the French Rafale seems always to the front-runner,” says the Tribune.
The aerospace group of Swedish defense proposed “access and full participation in development” of the Gripen and the production of 80% of the Gripen in Brazil with the creation of a production line. The Swedish also argues specializ a price “significantly below the competition.”
On 23 September, Nicolas Sarkozy, had however assured that the contract of sale in Brazil Rafale would soon emerge. “There is a political agreement, which we negotiated the contract and the contract will be signed as the one with submarines” had he even said in New York on the sidelines of the General Assembly of the United Nations.
On the occasion of a visit to Brazil in early September French President, Brazilian President Lula da Silva had agreed in principle to acquire Rafale.
Also note: following the recent crash of two bursts in the Mediterranean near Perpignan, in command of the Air Force Brazilian asked French authorities to have access to the survey. A spokesman for the Brazilian army has however stressed that “the accident will not change the assessment committee of the Air Force,” which should give technical advice on the three devices in competition.Sources: AFP, La Tribune, Le Parisien
arthuroBRASILIA (Dow Jones)–Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva doesn’t intend to discuss a planned large order of fighter jets with Swedish officials on a visit to Stockholm next week, Brazilian presidential spokesman Marcelo Baumbach said Friday.
“Clearly the subject is of interest to Sweden, but President Lula will limit himself to saying that the bidding process will begin soon,” Baumbach said.
Swedish manufacturer SAAB AB’s (SAAB-B.SK) Gripen fighter is one of three finalists chosen for a Brazilian procurement of 36 new fighter jets to renew Brazil’s aging air force fleet. Other finalists include U.S. Boeing Co.’s (BA) F-18 Hornet fighters and France’s Dassault Aviation SA’s (AM.FR) Rafale fighters.
Brazil’s government in September signaled that it was favoring the purchase of the French Rafale fighters due to French guarantees of technology transfers to Brazil. The announcement of interest in the French aircraft was made during the visit of French President Nicolas Sarkozy on Sept. 7.
Officially, the deadline for tenders in the bidding process only ends this week.
According to Brazilian press reports, however, some technicians in the Brazilian military and members of President Lula’s own governing Workers’ Party favor the Swedish offer because of its allegedly more competitive long-term costs.
President Lula is in Copenhagen, Denmark, Friday to accompany the announcement of the International Olympic Committee’s choice of a location for the 2016 Olympics.
Brazilian city Rio de Janeiro is among the finalists for the choice.
While in Europe, the president also plans to visit Belgium and Sweden to meet with local authorities and business leaders in those countries.
In Sweden, Lula has meetings scheduled with Prime Minister Fredrik Reinfeldt and King Carl Gustaf.
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091002-708594.html
France criticizes competitors and is committed to transfer production technology fighter
GABRIELA WARRIOR
Folha Online, in BrasiliaRepresentatives of the French company Dassault presented Thursday to the Committee on Foreign Relations of the Senate proposal of France to Brazil to sell 36 Rafale fighter planes. With criticism of the proposals of Sweden and the United States, which are also in dispute, the French undertook to transfer production technology of the aircraft if we choose the operation – while recognizing that the price of Rafale is higher than that presented by other competitors.
“We spend 75% state and 25% in industry total of 7 billion euros to be able to fly such aircraft. It’s another way of saying to do technology transfer is to avoid that Brazil has to spend that money. I manufacture aircraft fighting for at least 100 years, we have enough experience, “said Edouard Guillaud, military chief of staff of France.
In a critique of the proposal of Sweden, which intends to manufacture the Super Gripen aircraft together with Brazil, Guillaud said that France offers a Brazilian aircraft that are already active, with no “surprises” in the future.
“I speak of aircraft flying in combat, no aircraft will fly in eight or ten years only. Or other aircraft that are in a version that I qualify for the paper version, very theoretical. We Rafale in Afghanistan, using weapons with military capacity verifiable and guaranteed by the French government, “he said.
Free sheetRegarding the proposal of the United States to sell F-18 Super Hornet, built by Boeing, the military chief of staff said that the French program of aircraft production American technology has a return lower than expected.
“We do not buy F-16 do not participate in the American program. All who take part feel that the return of technology is very weak compared to investments made. If you want my opinion, it’s worth,” he said.
In the Rafale, are in the running for the sale to Brazil the Gripen, the Swedish company Saab, and the F-18 Super Hornet, the American Boeing.
Guillaud not provided details about the accident with two Rafale fighters, two weeks ago, which fell on the Mediterranean Sea. The head office of the French military said only that the accident was the result of a collision between aircraft – no relationship to quality of the aircraft.
“The seat [fighter] saved one of our pilots in the collision. We found a pilot last night, it was a collision,” he said in reference to one of the pilots of the aircraft that went missing.
Price
The French representative admitted that the price of Rafale is higher compared to the bids of other competitors, but indicated that other offers may come up with the development of new types of fighters. “The aircraft is expensive, true. Any game is expensive, but in the end, only knows the price of a plane after it built. When you are on paper, are only projections that never in history have occurred,” he said.
According Guillaud, the Rafale has life expectancy of 35 to 40 years and is capable of carrying nuclear weapons. “It replaces seven different aircraft in the French Navy. This aircraft has tremendous growth potential. We are willing to explore it with Brazil. If you make spare parts more cheaply to the Rafale here than in France, I send the French Navy to buy here in Brazil, not in France. ”
Like the Swedes and the Americans, the French are lobbying senators on the expectation of closing business with Brazil. The official deadline for submission of proposals to the Brazilian government ends tomorrow, but the final word on the type of aircraft they will be the Air Force.
http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/brasil/ult96u631953.shtml
arthuroFirstly I must point out that this is only an opinion and you are free to not share it. I am just suspicious and I am not accusing anyone. Then I wasn’t refering to Norway but South Africa and the Czech deal.
About Norway I would say that the competition was not fair for the gripen but don’t take all SAAB press realeses that followed with no distance (for norway and brazil for that matter). This is a comunication exercise desined to give the feeling/influence the audience that the gripen is the right choice. Nothing bad about this, but of course these press releases never talk about the things you lack against the competition. So these press releases are always a bit too ‘rosy’. You can’t have only assets with being the lightest aircraft…That would be too easy. SAAB press releases are only one part of the story. Dassault’s story is off media obviously. I just try to tell to take these press releases for what they are : a communication exercise and thus they should be taken with a pinch of salt.
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