arthuroGen. Stephane Abrial
French Air Force ChiefPublished: 8 June 2009 Print | Email
Gen. Stéphane Abrial, chief of the Air Force, is bringing the new Rafale frontline fighter into service as aircrews fly combat missions in Afghanistan and forward air controllers wait for delivery of video transmission equipment, expected in the autumn, that allows tighter air-ground coordination with allied forces. He holds industry to delivering the A400M airlifter to specification. The delivery delay forces the service to keep 40-year-old Transall airframes up in the air for the flight hours and operations needed for vital pilot certification.
Gen. Stephane Abrial is chief of the French Air Force. Meanwhile, Abrial is in line for a top job in NATO’s Allied Command Transformation, an appointment seen as a reward for France’s return to the integrated military command structure. Abrial attended the U.S. Air Force Academy in 1974 and won his fighter pilot’s wings in 1976.
Q. Given that a Western air force has not engaged in an aerial dogfight for decades, what is the French Air Force’s main mission?
A. The main mission is deterrence because the nation’s survival is at stake. We’re responsible for the airborne component with the Mirage 2000N and soon, the Rafale with the ASMP/A missile. There is national air security, which guarantees sovereignty of the skies. We assign significant resources in detection, command and control, and interception.
There’s intervention. As you say, for years there hasn’t been an aerial engagement. Does that mean there will never be one? I don’t think so. One day, there’ll be an urgent need for opposition in the third dimension. And there has been the emergence of new actors with drones. The drone marks the beginning of “robotization.” Robotization permits access to the third dimension by new actors. We’re beginning to see that in conflicts, such as in South Lebanon, where there has been an interception of an unmanned drone by a piloted aircraft.
Access to the third dimension becomes easier for nonstate actors and that’s why it’s important to ensure the primary mission, mastery of the sky, because without that mastery, it’s much harder to conduct other aerial operations, and without mastery, you can’t impede the adversary’s movements.
Q. You recently told the corps of military engineers that to be fully interoperable in the Afghan theater, you need the Rover terminal. Will the Damocles targeting and Reco NG reconnaissance pods be compatible?
A. We’re totally interoperable. We demonstrate that every day in Afghanistan with the Rafale and Mirage 2000D, which are fully integrated into the network, into communications, command and control, in the concept of operations and planning. We’re able to exchange information in real time between the air and ground. What’s lacking is a piece of equipment which allows real-time video transmission between air and ground. This equipment appeared recently and imposed itself extremely quickly in operations. We were a bit late because we started off with exchanges of fixed images. Steps are being taken. I have every hope we will begin to equip our forces this autumn. Our approach is to apply lessons from the battlefield to equipment.
Q. What do you say to critics who say that with engagements in complex urban environments, UAVs and precision-guided missiles, there is less need for a Cold War weapon like the Rafale?
A. The operations we’re doing in Afghanistan show the contrary. The Rafale is the only one in its category which is truly multimission. It is equipped with fully fused sensors, with a remarkable man-machine interface, the only one of its generation to be combat-proven. On its third campaign in Afghanistan, what we see is that the choices that were made correspond to operational needs, with the capacity to be inserted into a complex network, with great autonomy, with highly precise sensors and a range of weapons which allows response to all situations.
It is a new aircraft designed with an open architecture, which allows for evolution to meet future strategic environments. The fighter has a long life ahead of it, working in a mixed environment with the drone – which I never call a pilotless aircraft, because there is always a pilot flying remotely.
Q. Connectivity is seen as key to the F-22 and F-35, which are described as flying combat systems. How far are you in developing a concept of operations which fully uses the Rafale’s sensors and communications?
A. The progress the Rafale brings is that it is equipped with a large number of sensors capable of receiving and transmitting real-time information. The information gathered by the sensors is easily usable by the pilot and neighboring aircraft thanks to command-and-control aircraft and satellite communications.
Q. Does the greater workload require more twin-seater Rafales?
A. Yes. Our concept is a mixed fleet with single and twin seaters. The final ratio has not been decided. We’re working on a lot of the lessons from Afghanistan. The initial choice was to acquire twin seaters for training/transformation and the toughest missions, such as nuclear deterrence, and complex and demanding operations. The Rafale has an interface that allows it to be used by a single pilot, but there are situations where two on board is a plus. The ratio of twin seaters at the start is high as first we need to train, and second, we’re equipping the nuclear squadrons, and we need to acquire experience. Eventually, a ratio of 30 [percent] to 60 percent.
arthurogiven the rafale impressive fuel carrying capabiliies (3*2000l) and the fact that the AdA has tanker it is certainly not a priority.
More than range increase for the AdA CFT could clear more stations for weapons…imagine 4 SCALPS, 4 GBU24 or 12 AASM !! That would be a lot of punch. But for the moment it isn’t very elevant operationnaly….:D
Even if I think that the rafale is sufficiently powered today and that investing in lower life cycle costs etc is more relevant I must say that as an air enthusiast I am pretty excited to see this possibility one day…The TW ratio would just be unbelievable:eek:
If the UAE deal becomes a reality then the 90Kn M88 will take form…So the probability really exists !
arthuroThe issues mentionned was during the first or one of the first rafale M F1 deployement in 2001-2002. There was an article in DSI about that if I remember well.
There is no need of tow decoy with spectra, that was an answer I got two years ago at the latest paris air show.
On the other points I agree.
arthuroSorry guys but this “simulation” just like the old and obsolete early 90’s joust are made on purpose and one can reasonnably doubt that they are independent…:D
Take the dutch evaluation instead at least the technical part of it before other political and economical criterium…Many sources about this one :
(I know that you prefer “external sources” loke:D)
a source from a blog from bruxelles…(Nice chart)
http://bruxelles2.over-blog.com/article-22711204.html
From a dutch news paper
http://www.nrc.nl/nieuwsthema/jsf/ar…en_vliegtuigen
some extarcts :
The multi-criteria analysis, in cooperation with TNO and Dutch Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space (NLR) was performed, was a time consuming exercise. First were 700 criteria that the new fighter had to comply. Then experts gave a figure for each criterion. The weighted average of the scores was an indication of the system effectiveness of any device – in plain English: how well the aircraft was.
In the Court Brief on the JSF decision of February 11, 2002 was the multi-criteria analysis in detail. The government stressed in the letter detailed the purity of the process. The operation of the Air Force was rated by an independent working group of the Ministry of Defense, wrote the government. It had ruled that “the candidates thoroughly and carefully review”was conducted.
The evaluation itself was not the House. The same was true for the so-called B / C paper, the results were described. Both documents contain confidential commercial information from aircraft manufacturers and are therefore confidential.
According to the Air Force, the uncertainties involved. In the multi-criteria analysis, as wrote the Air Force in the B / C paper, the uncertainties “adequately addressed”.
In this analysis, some criteria are not one, but three scores out. The median score, the “expected performance” again. In addition, experts also had a top and a given value. After all values were added together, the multi-criteria analysis yielded three final scores on the system effectiveness.
The median score gave the Air Force how well the aircraft would be in 2010. The top score was the most optimistic expectations of the performance, the score was the worst case scenario. “This leads to more complete picture of system effectiveness with uncertainties, risks but also potential”, wrote the Air Force.
and source N° 3 ! :
http://www.dedefensa.org/article.php?art_id=84
A surprising and important detail had been made public: the technological and operational evaluation by the RNAF of the three candidates. According to the RNAF criteria, the JSF had been graded 6.97; the Rafale, 6.95; and the Eurofighter Typhoon, 5.85
arthuroit will indeed take some times and few patches to have tall he latest functionnalities; The first “final” software validation is nevetheless expected in 2010.
The UAE contract if signed could boost the introduction of new functionnalities as already mentioned in merchet’s blog. But honestly we don’t now the details of the various potential “new functionalities” …So this is just a speculation but with some groundings.
arthuroHow low our moral can be !
Since the begining, Dassault claims the Rafale would be successful on the export market. And now, after years of articles remembering us that the Rafale remains unsold (the “ill fated” fighter), all those prospections are like a desert crossing… and could end up in… a desert ?
One thing is sure, in 100 years, aviation history books will tell us how hard the French pushed to sell the Rafale. Will they tell that we finally succeeded ?
Indeed:D
But after the korea/singapore competition (some times ago now) we have a new “load” of competitions and state to stae negociation ! So it is a new chance:D
But nothing is done !;)
arthuroKUWAIT, June 2 (Reuters) – Kuwait’s defence minister said on Tuesday that buying Rafale fighter aircraft was worth “serious consideration”, the official Kuwait News Agency reported.
“On a Rafale French military aircraft deal, Sheikh Jaber al-Hamad al-Sabah said the issue will be looked at, noting that the French aircraft’s high quality and advanced technology demands serious consideration with regard to buying them,” the agency said.
Thanks for the link…I wonder if the UAE, Lybia and Koweit could make a common order (if an export materialize). I am pretty sure that I read that lybia is waiting the UAE deal to have better price conditions…
My personal opinion is that the rafale could well be a decent sucess in the export market and that if the UAE deal materializes it will certainly be a virtuous circle for the programme considering all the upgrades on the line. Of course nothing is done but this is interesting time for the rafale programme.
The rafale has also good chances in Brazil and swizerland so I really hope that an export will become a reality…
arthuroYou are probably right as long as the F35 is not in direct confrontation for exports…
arthuroHello loke,
There was an article in A&C about the RBE2 AESA that I summed up on this board in one of the rafale thread.
The thales technical exectutive which was interviewed said that the AESA RBE2 was very similar to the APG-79 in terms of “maturity” and technical choices.
edit : I found it
I’ve just read the Air&cosmos n°2150 (5 december) which deals with AESA radars.
Of course there is an article about the RBE2 AESA.
Some facts from an interview with Gérard Christmann, Thales vice president in charge of Electronic Warfare solutions.
The searched volume is increased by a factor 3 to 4 against the PESA RBE2
-tracking range is increased by 30% to 50%
-The RBE2 AESA is very similar to the APG-79 in terms of technology and maturity.
-The power processing has been dramatically increased with 4 new calculators.
-Power supply has an average power of 10kW. Which is an increase with previous PESA RBE2.
-The AESA RBE2 will allow sub-metric SAR images.
-The ability to jamm or transmit datas thanks to this new radar is closely considered but not funded for the moment.
-First AESA rafale should be delivered at the very beginning of 2011 (from the current batch). It will also equip the next batch of rafale which is expected to be ordered soon: beginning of 2009 for 60 airframes.
-The Swiss were able to see the gain of performance of this new radar as they could compare to the PESA RBE2. This evaluation of the AESA antenna by the swiss was a success.
-4 radar prototypes are used for trials-1 or 2 will be affected for exports trials. one is tested on the B301 an the other one is tested on the mirage 2000 B501 from the CEV.
-final software validation is expected for the first quarter of year 2010.
-This radar could be licensed in India or Brazil.
-Full ToT is possible.I forgot : the french government will garanty that a minimum of 11 RBE2 AESA radars will be produced each year for the next batch.
But now that dassault has a fair part of thales capital this solution is unlikely, just like for the gripen NG…
arthuroafter the rafale F3+ the rafale F4 under study
http://www.zinio.com/reader.jsp?issue=416083334 p29
“The F4 standard is under study and there is not frozen content for the moment. […] We are thinking about items like stealth improvement or increased data fusion. Meanwhile, we can tweak things based on lessons learned such as the need for a Rover ISR data link.”
arthuroother sources :
The Rafale B have made for ten days in Red Flag four sorties daily average 2 pm (1 day strike 1 night) within devices Attack (Blue Air) a fifty to sixty aircraft in general. This by daytime temperatures above 45 ° C almost identical to those suffered in Kandahar, Afghanistan. These temperatures were also more challenging for crews and mechanics for airplanes, but the power reserve of the M88 engine provided comfortable thrust margin forthe missions, aircraft are routinely equipped with supersonic three tanks of 1200 litres to mimic a heavy load configuration.
from another board from rapier 55, a red flag spoter (reply 106) refering to the video above :
Xav, thanks for posting the video (2nd). I think I also put it up in the Pic/Video Section, though I’m not sure. I’ve uploaded so many videos lately I’ve lost track. Also, they’re all shot in HD, just click the link.
Originally Posted by arthuro
(the speaker/journalist also says that the american pilots were impressed by rafale power by the way…)I have to agree with this assessment. After watching a number of aircraft launch from Red Flag I was impressed with the power the Rafale exhibited on takeoff. The high pitch and continuous climb was unbelievable. I won’t quote anybody but in many aspects people were more amazed by the Rafale’s capabilities than with the Eurofighters.
arthuroDon_Jupp,
your view is over simplistic and wrong…
Firstly the rafale is overpowered against all of its direct competitors (exept typhoon) and it also has some very effective FBW and aerodynamics which will make the difference.
The mirage 2000 has a smaller TW ratio than the F16 but was already viewed as a better dogfighter and Air dominance platform. taiwan and HAF use them mainly in this role wheras they operate both type. so imagine the rafale with its impressive trust to weight ratio !
from an HAF mirage 2000 pilot :
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-1872-start-45.html
Would you agree with these statements of a former HAF fighter pilot?
<>
This true.
>>With good pilots on both sides, they are probably equal in dogfight>>
This is wrong. A good pilot in an M2K will kill a good pilot in an F-16 9 out of 10 times (1 provided for launch failure).
I served in an M2K fighter squadron in HAF. We analyzed tactics and combat scores against HAF F-16 squadrons all the time.
The M2Ks higher INSTANTANEOUS turn rate gives it an advantage during the first pass. The F-16 cannot outturn the Mirage. It has to climb in hopes of avoiding the lock. A good M2K pilot will end it right there (the Magic 2 is a better IR weapon than the AIM-9L/M).
A rookie in the M2K, however, will probably lose the F-16’s climb. The more powerful viper will escape and will then gain the advantage because of 1) Altitude 2) Higher SUSTAINABLE turn rate.
As for turn rates, altitude differences are purely theoretical and in practice make no difference EXCEPT for sea level manuevers where the more powerful Viper starts gaining the advantage.
Would you agree with the statement that F-16 is a better choice for multi role missions than Mirage 2000 ?Absolutely. The M2K is a multi-role fighter also, but its performance varies greatly among roles – whereas the Viper performs almost all missions at a very satisfactory level.
HAF M2Ks are specialized. 331’s (where I served) primary role is now TASMO (naval strike with AM-39 Exocet) and 332’s primary role will become Deep Strike (with SCALP EG). CAP & Air Supremacy are their secondary roles.
The F-16 sqdns OTOH undertake a number of roles such as SEAD, CAP, CAS, and numerous specialized strike missions (enemy AFBs, enemy C&C centers etc). The Viper is a much more volatile weapons system
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfqJYyPevvw
US F16 pilot : “rafale has capabilities which are unique and is a much more agressive aircraft…”
speaker : the US pilots were impressed by rafale power…
“Our snecma M88-2 are so powerful that we often had to reduce power to avoid overtaking our preys” (F16)
against an F16 the rafale is more powerful in the whole flight envelope and is considerably more maneuvrable below 300 knots
The f16 is no match for he rafale as a dogfighter even USAF pilots admits it as in the video I provided.
secondly to think that an aircraft is good only because is powerful show that you still need to learn about modern air warfare. (no offence intended)…
arthuroIt is the point…I’ll be glad to see other of your sources because for now the score should be 10 vs 1…And I am generous because your source is debatable and open for interpretation knowing the UAE record of buying the best available. The thing which is certain is that the rafale is very sufficiently powered in regard of the competition exept the typhoon. This is certainly not an area where it has lacuna.
arthuroThe variety of sources I provided is pretty compelling… But obviously you are only here to bash the rafale so what more can I do ?? I am perfectly able to hear critics but now you are obviously palying a childish game and the debate can’t be rational. Even if I provide you 100 more sources you will still be on your position.
The UAE usually orders the best available like the F16 block60 vs other F16 or the mirage 2000-9 vs other mirage 2000. Its the same logic with the rafale.
The swiss also considered the rafale as sufficiently powered during the last eval according to a swiss forumer working for the military.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfqJYyPevvw
US F16 pilot : “rafale has capabilities which are unique and is a much more agressive aircraft…”
speaker : the US pilots were impressed by rafale power…
Can you imagine that if the rafale gets its 90kn engines it will boast the highest trust/weight ratio in the world ?! Nice don’t you think ?
arthuroThe rafale has already one of the best TW ratio available on the market as shown by toan, it outperforms most of other modern aircraft in dogfight and can carry an exepional payload for its size even for carrier operation…
if the UAE wants even more its their choice as a custommer. You can always asks for more. But today the rafale is already overpowered…
did you bother to look at Tmor’s link ? Look at p41 and 49…And just to remind you this one…
Ceci par des températures diurnes supérieures à 45°C presque identiques à celles subies à Kandahar en Afghanistan. Ces températures ont été d’ailleurs plus éprouvantes pour les équipages et les mécaniciens que pour les avions, la réserve de puissance au décollage des moteurs M88 ayant assuré une poussée confortable au départ des missions, les avions étant systématiquement équipés des trois bidons supersoniques de 1200 litres pour mimer une configuration de guerre lourde
The Rafale B have made for ten days in Red Flag four sorties daily average 2 pm (1 day strike 1 night) within devices Attack (Blue Air) a fifty to sixty aircraft in general. This by daytime temperatures above 45 ° C almost identical to those suffered in Kandahar, Afghanistan. These temperatures were also more challenging for crews and mechanics for airplanes, but the power reserve of the M88 engine provided comfortable thrust margin forthe missions, aircraft are routinely equipped with supersonic three tanks of 1200 litres to mimic a heavy load configuration.
😎
video of rafale taking of in an heavy load AtA config in red flag during hot temperatures :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Dqpew4hgaU&feature=fvsr
*******************************************************
from another board from rapier 55, a red flag spoter (reply 106) refering to the video above :
Xav, thanks for posting the video (2nd). I think I also put it up in the Pic/Video Section, though I’m not sure. I’ve uploaded so many videos lately I’ve lost track. Also, they’re all shot in HD, just click the link.
Originally Posted by arthuro
(the speaker/journalist also says that the american pilots were impressed by rafale power by the way…)I have to agree with this assessment. After watching a number of aircraft launch from Red Flag I was impressed with the power the Rafale exhibited on takeoff. The high pitch and continuous climb was unbelievable. I won’t quote anybody but in many aspects people were more amazed by the Rafale’s capabilities than with the Eurofighters.
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=137433&page=8
😎
The high performance demo of the rafale in dubaï (hot temperatures) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJqx9X85AAQ
And from the document I attached in one of my previous posts :
“Our snecma M88-2 are so powerful that we often had to reduce power to avoid overtaking our preys” (F16)
😎
against an F16 the rafale is more powerful in the whole flight envelope and is considerably more maneuvrable below 300 knots
😎
Ouch ! GOTmor… it hurts…KO:D
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