Well, ante climax, the issue is that the sources that he provided are not consistent at all with his claims, quite the reverse in fact…Have you read the translated part (that I provided) of the articles ? (posts 301, 303, 307)

Because the reports of these events (that he posted himself!) are extremely positive (to say the least) for the rafale.

I provided direct greek pilots quotes praising the rafale in this very event. what else would you like ? I mean use your common sens…And (re) read the translated parts to make your own opinion. I mean it is pretty clear that the rafale is superior in the journalist opinion as well from the pilots opinion and by a fair margin.

I repeat that he mixed up several events as he took the conclusions of the F1 substandard encounter for all the exercises. The fact that even a F1 was already able to achieve “marginal superiority” means that a rafale F2 will certainly do much better as there is a real gap of capabilities between the two standards. Again now the rafale F3 is fully available and the F3+ is coming soon which will widen the gap again.

Well i keep posting traduction of the greek articles provided by greg and I must say that they are all praising the rafale! and not just a little bit…:eek:

source : http://www.interception.gr/app/webroot/objects/SEP08_RAFALE.pdf

The Data Fusion, is the key to the supremacy of the Rafale and
All sensors are designed to «communicate» with Spon –
dyloti Data Processing Unit (Modular Data Processing
Unit). Through specific algorithms, the system provides both
tactical situation on the screen, and the display of
radar «filtered» the positions of targets that may
trapped simultaneously or individually by radar AESA, the
FSO, the SPECTRA, heads missile MICA IR or taken
by way of Link-16 fighters from other aircraft or AWACS. So
ensure that the operator of the Rafale is a front-xeka
thari [B]regular situation without presenting double images
as products separate from each tracking system;
But while essentially the same objective. In this way, not
only reduces the workload of the pilot, but growing business
sustainability through the clear understanding regular situation
which otherwise would require valuable time, pre –
pilot a text to clarify what is actually
ic and what «double» and therefore false.
Alongside the most important element is that the data fusion
prevents the simultaneous involvement of the target of two separate
aircraft separately (and thus wasting precious missiles) and reductions [/B]

Pilots and engineers who have acquired experience with the Rafale of France
Whole Navy QRA tasks to agree that the Rafale is particularly higher resistance to high environmental G.
Regarding the autonomy of fighting, is characterized as
excellent and can be air patrol
(CAP) day and night to load 6 missile MICA EM / IR and three
1.250 lt tanks of 150nm away from the base on time
tion period of close to 3 hours and 15 minutes!

ideal for the crucial role of air defense. Compared with
Mirage 2000 offers superior performance overall.
As the first has better growth rate can be found
height 40.000ft fully loaded weapon in less than 2 minutes!
That is 30 seconds faster than the Mirage 2000. Eidikote –
So the Rafale can load 4 missile and a tank to
take off rapidly with angle of attack RSO up to 45 degrees
10.000ft reach before the pilot started progressively defined
ntionei.
But impressive performance achieved without
after use to save fuel, and the Rafale
needs only 1.000 m in length runway to take off with
dry thrust load and 6 MICA missile and 3 tanks in 1250 lt
stop sending air superiority!
In the case of the Rafale accelerate beyond Mach 1 it can
be achieved without afterburners and with dry thrust only and automations

During the operations, the advantages are long range, autonomy in the air
attack targets at long distances, the ability to transport
supply a large weapons load for example 6-guided
including laser bombs GBU-12.
Unlike in the case of guided munitions AASM
(Armement Air-Surface Modulaire, Modular Air-to-Surface
Armament), offers even more choices and give
Rafale’s ability to perform regular attack targets in
the battlefield in all weather conditions even more
flexibility than that offered by bombs GBU.

rafale vs F16 dogfight : (2’07) hud view

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VL8q7Hv-TxI

Other interesting extracts :

As the French Moirarchos of EC 1 / 7 «Provence»,
Lieutenant (I) Luis Pena, «We are here for a week
education with the PA. The main idea is to make –
with air and air missions to fly some Greek
Operators at the back post of Rafale as well as some
our pilots with Greek F-16.
Our first combat operations conducted in Ar –
ganistan aircraft and our proven and highly capable
particularly effective in air-ground missions. Parallel
All but the Squadron with the Rafale is very effective and
in halting shipments and air superiority.
The personal experience of the operations in Afghanistan
, reinforced my view on the advantages of the Rafale
particularly with regard to long range, its autonomy, air attack on targets at long distances, the ability
possibility of transferring large weapons load for example
6 laser guided bombs GBU-12. For this reason
we believe that the French Air Force has a
very efficient aircraft ».

The last encounter was against rafale F1 and it wasn’t representative of today’s rafale performance, even if this first substandart variant was able to achieve a “marginal” superiority” over the F16 blck52 and already had a lot of praised about SPECTRA.

The recent exercise was also the first opportunity
Squadron fighter PA to «deal» in the air
Rafale. In 2006, Rafale M fighter from the air
planoforo Charles de Gaulle of the French Navy;
ment, participated in a blocked air scenarios – against an air –
chitikon F-16C / D Block 52 + by the 115PM and F-4E AUP by
the 117PM PA.
But the Rafale M belonged to the original version capabilities
F1 focused role in the air – the air with relatively limited
certain capabilities.

I hope that the confusion made by Greg is over now !

Translate the scanned paragraph in red.

Have to go now

But greg, I have already read this translation in other forums and firstly it was an encounter with rafale MF1 with pilots arriving directly from Crusaders and secondly even with this substandard and with less experienced pilots the rafale still achieved a marginal superiority over block 52. And I remember that even with the F1 standard the greek pilots where amazed by spectra’s capabilities in the same report.

In the most recent reports that I translated with the rafale F2 I see very praisworthy comments about the MMI, the datafusion, the situational awarness, cockpit etc…Of the rafale F2 which have their weight since the greek pilots also gives what would they would like on the rafale and which the rafale lacks like the missile to taget countdown on the HUD or the french pilots admitting that the HMS +Iris-t is a daedly combo. So it is a “neutral” view without the usual bias of “industry sources”

And this view is very positive about the rafale in both recent articles you provided. again the rafale F2 is certainly the only aircraft in the competition which dared to be compared and confronted to the very modern blck52 and the results (even if no exact kill ratio is given) seems very positive for the rafale knowing that the F3 or even more the F3+ will still widen the gap with the F16 block52. (imagine with the meteor!)

So you should really don’t mix a rafale F1 which was already deemed as “marginally superior” to a F16 block 52 with a rafale F2. According to a rafale test pilot wich was quoted in the monthly Air fan (special issue about the rafale during the F2 introduction) there is a generation gap between the two standard as well as a gap in capabilities.

I think that you are confusing many people when you don’t make the distinction between these events since they don’t imply the same standards.

So to conclude the rafale F2 faired pretty well against the block52+ even against very experienced an skilfull greek pilots in the ecents events.

EDIT : I see that we have the same interpretation with nicolas10 when I posted my post. And as he said the Greek AF can pick the 90kn variant of the M88 along with AESA, OSF ng …which are standard for export markets now. But I don’t think the rafale will win in greece ince frane has already won many military contracts (FREMM, helos…)

for ante climax :
(please read the threads) this has been debated a thousand time :
There is 36000 GI stationed in SK it has its weight politically.

“[QUOTE]Dassault’s combat aircraft Rafale was rated as “excellent” in all five categories, while its strongest rival, Boeing’s F-15 fighter, reached the standard in only two categories.

The Boeing fighter received “excellent” in reliability and supportive combat capability, while Eurofighter, produced by a European consortium, won the top grades in the general function and reliability categories.

In the categories of weapons and electronic warfare capability, only Rafale earned the “excellent” grade, according to the officials.

Russia’s Su-35 took fourth place with “ordinary” rates in all five categories.

[/QUOTE]

Korea to Buy 20 Foreign Fighter Jets Next Year

(Source: Korea Overseas Information Service; dated Jan. 18, web-posted Jan. 17, 2007)

Having ordered 40 Boeing F-15Ks, South Korea has now confirmed plans to order 20 new multi-rôle fighters in 2008. Korea has decided to choose a foreign contractor through open bidding to supply 20 “next-generation” fighter jets in the coming years, a project to cost around 2.3 trillion won ($2.4 billion), defense officials said Wednesday (Jan. 17).

The project follows Seoul’s contract with the U.S. company Boeing Co. in 2002 to buy 40 F-15K jets for $4.6 billion. Eighteen jets have been delivered so far, with the remainder to be introduced by next year.

“We plan to draw up a detailed plan for the procurement project next month and distribute the proposal in March, with the aim of signing a contract by February next year,” said Major General Kim Deuk-hwan, director-general for aircraft programs at the Defense Acquisition Program Administration.

The decision was made at a defense procurement project committee meeting presided over by Defense Minister Kim Jang-soo at the Defense Ministry building in central Seoul.

Korea has pushed for the purchase of 120 next-generation fighter jets as part of its blueprint for overhauling the military’s structure and drastically increasing combat capability by 2020.

“It is a plan to secure 20 highly efficient multipurpose fighter jets to actively counter threats by neighboring countries under the National Defense Reform 2020 project,” Kim said. “We will introduce the aircraft between 2010 and 2012.”

He indicated that Lockheed Martin’s F-35 model will be ruled out, saying the Air Force needs double-engine fighters.

“There are a lot of differences between the single-engine F-35 and what our military needs, including weapons capacity and flight scope,” Kim said.

Korean officials expect the introduction of a foreign model to help the country learn the core technology needed for the designing and manufacturing of advanced aircraft, as well as contributing to the development of the domestic aerospace industry and the creation of jobs.

In 2002, Seoul chose Boeing’s F-15K, probably in consideration of the long-standing military alliance with the United States, giving a new lifeline to Boeing’s then-sputtering F-15 production line in Missouri. The French-built fighter Rafale reportedly beat the F-15K by a narrow margin in the technical phase of evaluation. Two other fighters, the Russian Sukhoi Su-35 and the Typhoon from European consortium Eurofighter, also joined in the competition.

Rafale, the French fighter, scrambles for export orders
By Christina Mackenzie
International Herald Tribune
Published: July 16, 2006 Paris

Riddle: Which combat aircraft outperforms its competitors in dogfights, is frequently classed first on technical merit in international tenders, is capable of covering a broad spectrum of air missions and is competitively priced, but has yet to win a single export order from a foreign air force? Answer: the Rafale, the French fighter developed and manufactured by Dassault Aviation.

In development since the mid-1980s and in French naval carrier-based service since 2004, Rafale is a so-called fourth-generation fighter, a sophisticated multirole jet with advanced avionics and weapons systems, but less able to avoid radar detection than “fifth generation” stealth fighters like the Lockheed-Martin F-22 Raptor or the U.S.-European F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

Competitors include the U.S.-made F- 15 Eagle, in service in various versions since the 1970s, the F-16 Fighting Falcon and F-18E/F Super Hornet, the Eurofighter Typhoon and the Swedish-built JAS-39 Gripen, marketed in collaboration with BAE Systems of Britain.

Dassault and the French Ministry of Defense hope that exports may now take off after Prime Minister Dominique de Villepin declared operational a first French air force squadron of 20 Rafales on June 27.

“It’s almost impossible to sell a combat aircraft not operational in its own air force,” Gérard David, head of communications for Dassault said during an interview by telephone. “The doors are now open to Rafale’s export career.”
Within the French military, the Rafale eventually would replace existing air force and naval fighters and fighter- bombers, including the Mirage IV, F1 and 2000; the Jaguar; Crusader; Etendard IV and Super-Etendard.

“This is going to reduce our operating costs tremendously through rationalization of maintenance,” said General Patrick Dufour, director of the Rafale program at the Délégation Générale de l’Armement, France’s defense procurement agency.

Colonel François Moussez, a pilot who has flown 150 hours on the Rafale, said that two could do the work of six existing air superiority/defense and air-to-surface attack jets. “With the Rafale,” he said, “we can do simultaneous multimission management: air-to-air, air-to- ground, reconnaissance at the same time.”

Moussez said that in dogfight exercises, the Rafale had outflown F-15, F-16 and F-18 opponents, and in technical and performance evaluations “we have systematically won against the F-15 and the Eurofighter Typhoon.”
Yet it lost to the F-15 in competitions to sell to South Korea and Singapore. Moussez said it was outflanked in the former case on political grounds and in the latter case on costs, noting that the dollar had depreciated 30 percent over the period of the Singapore competition.

In competitions to sell combat aircraft, “the principal criterion is political. It has little to do with aircraft performance,” Moussez said.

ante climax,

I advise you to browse the rafale threads before posting or do some quick research in it and save some of the publications about the rafale because you are not up to date on some subjects about it and several of your comments are factually wrong regarding competitions or prices. (no flame intended):) If you are curious about this programme, it is a “gold mine” for informations. I think that close to 100% of rafale publications either from press, TV, industry etc is posted in these threads !
Good reading !;)

Link to Rafae news III: http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=80325
Link to Rafale news II: http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=72432
Link to Rafale news: http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=68250
rafale news IV : http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=85983

regards.

Some rafale news from Air&cosmos (weekly)

Next week two rafales will fly to the UAE (equipped with AESA radars) in order to be showed to the UAE airforce which is willing to aquire 60 airframes. The evaliation should last till february (date of IDEX2009). The rafale should be the star of the local defense meeting IDEX 2009.

Other news : the rafale is currently training with drones (SDTI) to engage time sensitive ground targets with AASM or 30mm canon. This colaboration should be used in afghanistan very soon as both types are there.