I am not sure about the 2000L drop tanks for the Typhoon. Never saw them and never heard anything concrete about their development and the feasibility and if it is seriously planned. I have doubts about it.
And even if true it will not solve the Stormshadow+1000L issue or the 6LGB issue. Typhoon hard point layout is not very flexible in AtG config.
The CFT is an option (for the rafale as well) but I am not certain that this is being offered in India or that some partner nations are really serious about dveloping it. I heard that was a possible tranche 3 option but as I undersand with the limited budget available for upgrades the effort is going for the AESA and meteor rather than CFTs.
It is true that the Typhoon is limited in AtG even fully developped.
-Deep strike with 2 scalp/storm shadow against a strategic target ?
1000L of external fuel for the Typhoon and 6000L for the rafale.
-CAS with 6LGB/ASSM and LDP ?
0L external fuel for the Typhoon and 6000L for the rafale
-CAS with 4 LGBs and LDP ?
2000L for the Typhoon and 6000L for the rafale.
The Typhoon was mainly designed as an AtA platform and there are some features that you can’t retrofit.
My guess/speculation about this leakage is that it might not be completely accurate but some if not most of the points are valid. As usual if one detail is not correct it will be an excuse to dismiss 100% of the content.
The Typhoon might not be as mature or as multirole than the rafale but it has a lot of arguments in terms of offset and political leverage.
If we assume that this latest report is true and that IAF could live with either the rafale or typhoon then the latter is definitely a favorite.
That being said I agree that the rafale would make more sense in a purely operational point of view because of its better multirole capability and aggressive development path. But now offset, politics, price and ToT are the four main criteria and the Typhoon has an edge at least for offset and politics.
In Brazil probably, in India unlikely…
The issue in India is offset now that the tech eval has been done (assuming that the latest report is true which still has to be seen) BAE+EADS and 4 european countries will be very hard to beat for Dassault/France.
Funny that to dismiss him you are trying to find the slightest contradictions…He gave extremely accurate informations that were unveiled a few weeks after for some of them. As a brazilian law officer and defense journalist he is fully qualified to speak about this matter. Actually he is the best source we could have with both the expertise and access to the FAB evaluation. But I see that some prefer to live in delusion rather than accept his arguments.
If you only believe SAAB powerpoint slideshows sure you will never be disappointed. But if it can keep you happy why not after all ? It is like a kind of therapy. No need to feel depressed then and worry about what other sources are saying : you will get only positive informations. That’s wonderful and all the gripen fanboys will have a good day.;):D
1) Pepe Rezende on this forum (rafale for Brazil thread) after he read the FAB evaluation.
2) Brazilian article after the first leaks of the eval (rafale for brazil thread.)
3) IAF eval Television leak just a few posts above.
I don’t know the detail of gripen AESA issues but it could be linked to a smaller electricity supply for instance. Just an idea.
Other similarity with Pepe rezende posts on Key is about the mig35. He said after meeting top IAF officers, that the mig 35 and the SH failed at Lehe Trials for engine issues when other succeeded.
True that we should wait further confirmations but there is a striking similarity with the Brazilian tender. Gripen’s NG radar performance was again called into question. After Pepe Rezende and another Brazilian press report its seems that they have targeted the same issue in India. Which bring some consistence to this leak.
My bet is that the Typhoon will eventually win due to offsets. EADS, BAE and 4 european nations is a lot of political clout and a lot of offset opportunities. On a pure operational point of view I believe the rafale makes more sense as it is the most versatile platform of the two if we consider this report true.
…and as mentioned on pprune, has to fly around with a legacy M2000 to designate its LGBs. Mmm, not as multirole as the French make out.
Self laser designation is ready for rafale next Astan deployement in september (air force) and december (navy) with the F3.2 standard.
It should allow for less airframes to be purchased, because it should be more reliable and more capable than the systems it is replacing. That is what is part of its design statement. If LM and BAE havn’t managed that, then it should have been cancelled years ago… and despite all the pressure on the programme it is still very alive.
The F35 will be very reliable but as a single engine fighter the attrition will be higher. That is a constent trend when you compare single and twin engines fighters.
Engine failure due to technical issue gives a higher attrition rate (maintenance error, bird strike etc…)
Now that’s clear that as the Brazilian choice will be purlely political and on financial basis any aircraft that is rated first is in a fragile position.
It all depends on the subjective perception of what has to be the best valued as a criteria. So a next government might weight more another criteria and change the winner without calling into question the whole evaluation.
I know understand why France is already preparing the post electoral period with Dilma Brazilian favourite for the run for presidency.
The mirage 2000 was IAF star in this conflict due to its reliability and performance at high altitude. That’s why many people don’t understand why dassault is so reluctant in the MMRCA campaign when they got a lot of credit during the conflict.
I don’t think so.
A super Tucano is too slow to be quickly on station and lack the punch and psychological impact of a true figher. If a super Tucano was really adapted after a decade of CAS there already exist a serious request for this type of aircarft to to the job.
Attack helicopters are more efficient in this role and are complementary with fighter jets.
The F15E which is not really a lightweight fighter is doing most of the strike role in Astan. That is a big indication.
The Tornado is an exellent strike platform (I am just speaking of the aircarft, not systems of course) and exept for the first day war situation it will outperform the F35 and especially the B version.
Just like I am really wondering how can the F35 replace the A10.
So while the F35 is clearly ahead on the paper (more modern) I fear that the actual perception by the troop requesting support will not reflect the difference of modernity. In the end the aircarft that can remain above the longer with a the more punch will be prefered
The F35 will be a very capable aircraft and an exellent addition for the RAF.
My only concern for the RAF is that I fear that the F35B will be a bit short legged compared to the Tornado it replaces.
If you live aside the rare first day war scenario I feel that The tornado was a more performant platform (living aside avionics) to do the bulck of the bombing work (bigger, faster, more robust). It is good to think about very techological intensive scenarios but one should not forget the dayli strike missions like in Astan or over iraq.
Just to put in perspective the mirage 2000 future : like in The UK there is a defense budget review to fight the deficits.
The mirage 2000D upgrade with RY3 is postponed and will probably never occur.
The A330 MRTT will be postpone as well. Only the rafale programe will be preserved. The idea is to preserve the main programs (rafale, tiger, baracudas) to help the industry and export and cut spending in other areas.